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- Squats are a ripoff of fantasy dwarves/dwarfs: your point? (ahem, Eldar)

- Squats have a silly name: granted but so what? (Eldar v. Dark Eldar, the names of all SM Chapters, etc)

- Squats make more sense as xenos: why? in every respect but height, they're humans

- Squats as an army are redundant: let's see here, would you rather play Space Marines? Dark Angels? Space Wolves? Black Templars? Blood Angels? Grey Templars? Chaos Space Marines?

- Squats as a fluff concept are redundant: saying they overlap with Ad Mech is pretty lame; as has already been pointed out, Squats not only scoff at notions of the Omnissiah (they worshipped their ancestors like most dwarves/dwarfs, which could be given very cool twists in a scifi setting), but they also advocate technological innovation

Should they have their own army? I don't know. A lot has changed in 40k since they last had one. But they shouldn't have been "squatted."

I started 40k after squats had been 'squatted'. I was excited when I first saw models for them. I was disappointed when I learned they no longer were supported.

I would have picked them as my starter army.

Squats were pretty awesome in Epic, lots and lots of over-engineered vehicles and vicious artillery. I never thought they got a fair shake

Voted no not because I like squats but I think removing an army that people enjoy playing and have spent money on is wrong. If they are loosing money with them and want to end it just stop any new releases and stop selling the models. They hould at least keep them legal for people who already own them.

Manchu wrote:(really, anything that's not a Space Marine).

One could argue that Space Marines don't really fit either, though with the amount of fluff out there for them it obviously varies from piece to piece. GW tries hard to make them "good guys" while maintaining that there are no "good guys" in 40k, because it helps increase sales.

So basically Marines, in some incarnations, aren't really grimdark enough for 40k.

I think they could make Squats grimdark enough.

They look they do not fit in , seriously squats what kind of name is that!

I've read more ridiculous Chapter names, and some of them were even GW-named chapters from White Dwarf.

blood reaper wrote:They look they do not fit in , seriously squats what kind of name is that!

I swear, blood reaper, every time you open your mouth (or fingers in this case, I suppose) I gain a little bit of faith in the American education system.

Because maybe it's comparatively not that bad after all.

Squats have been gone for so long I am amazed that people still remember them. I think, if they are were to bring them back, they would need such a re-working to fit the new fluff that they would no longer be Squats (at least not how those of us old hands remember them). I think they should run with the Demiurg (Sp?) and leave the Squats in the past with the Exodites, Imperial Guard jetbikes, battle robots, feral orks etc.

I utterly and completely despise the squats because I miss the Zoats.

Oh, here's something I hadn't thought about-- given that the 'nids ate the squats, what exactly did they produce out of them?

Melissia wrote:One could argue that Space Marines don't really fit either

I dunno. I'm surprised they didn't just call the game "Space Marine."


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Melissia wrote:I've read more ridiculous Chapter names, and some of them were even GW-named chapters from White Dwarf.

All of the SM Chapters have ridiculous names. It's just that you get used to them. When I first got into 40k, I remember thinking "Space wolves? That's immensely slowed. Why not Space Lions or Space Sharks?" (That was before I knew there actually were Space Sharks, of course.) But now I think Space Wolves is one of the better names. You just get used to things.

Melissia wrote:Oh, here's something I hadn't thought about-- given that the 'nids ate the squats, what exactly did they produce out of them?

Hormagaunts.

Better yet.

Rippers.

Short, brutish, and nasty.

Rippers fit perfectly. I love it.

SaintHazard wrote:Short, brutish, and nasty.

You have that out of order.

The problem is most of us didn't play in 2nd edition, and only know about the squats from other people. And Space Dwarves appeal to some people I guess. But we don't know about the insane fluff, we don't know about the horrible lead models.

All we know is a company let some people down, and that makes us angry.

Holy hell, Starbomber... your signature just triggered a shocking moment of clarity. The kind you need a cigarette or a cold shower after.

Two of the other armies in the 40k universe who love speed - the Blood Angels and the Saim-Hann Eldar - are able to move so damn fast because they're painted red.

SaintHazard wrote:Holy hell, Starbomber... your signature just triggered a shocking moment of clarity. The kind you need a cigarette or a cold shower after.

Two of the other armies in the 40k universe who love speed - the Blood Angels and the Saim-Hann Eldar - are able to move so damn fast because they're painted red.

Wait, wait. Things just got interesting.

Now we just need to figure out how the hell the Dark Eldar do it.

Drugs.

Probably sold to them by Squats.

How about Red Dwarves
or is that contrary to their slow poke stereotype?

I vote for Dark Squats or Chaos Squats if you prefer!

Catyrpelius wrote:I vote for Dark Squats or Chaos Squats if you prefer!

Huh?

I think my name shows my allegiance here.

First and possibly separately.....Epic squats ruled. No arguments, no questions. Sadly mega machines and massed bike charges didn't transfer easily into 40K at that time

Second......40K squats (or should that be RT squats) kicked ass (as a brilliant space opera concept). RT was/is a very different game to 5th and I believe many people give their opinions about squats without having ever really experienced them in their correct setting. Sure they may have bought or "liberated" an electronic copy of the compendium and read their stats, rules and background; but many people arguing over them weren't even conceived let alone playing with them at the time.

I started gaming in '88, I've played GW games since and RT has not been beaten IMO (although I'm quite enjoying my recent excursions into 5th)...... as long as you had the right attitude and resources (endless time, playing space, mature players and an ultra patient GM/wife.) to allow RT to bloom into the excellent game it was/is.

As a die hard squat player (epic, RT and coming soon(ish) 5th ed) in RT 40K the squats weren't that great. They were slow and difficult to use. You had to be a good tactical player to get the most out of them. But I loved them. They got me into playing RT. They had an excellent range of units and variety and nearly everything in RT could be countered, tweaking was encouraged and equipment was often universally available. I never moved to 2nd ed. as I disliked the direction it seemed to be taking. I still play RT and because of this my stunty erstwhile companions were never 'squatted' (although my wife bought me a load of tyranids and a bottle of ketchup last christmas).

I've converted my 20yr old force to 5th ed. so I can spend more time with them and people who weren't born/playing in the 'old days' can experience them. I took a sentinel (my avatar) into a GW near me and a tiny red haired kid exclaimed "wow! how cool is that? a dwarf in a sentinel." This made me feel old yet happy. I don't want a 5th ed codex or a return of the models (which varied between lovely and blinking awful), sadly their day in GW's current game is gone.

As a race the squats are gone, but there will always be pockets of resistance, small insular brotherhoods clinging to a mercenary lifestyle somewhere in the grimdark. Do not fear them, embrace them. Then check your pockets and run. But not too fast........

oh and the ing Demiurg. With a stick.

"Dances with Squats" as a username? A challenger appears!

"Morathi's Darkest Sin" finally has competition for coolest username on Dakka.

Dances with Squats

isn't that how the Cossacks do it?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Dances with Squats

isn't that how the Cossacks do it?

You win funniest, by Jove, for today at least.

Were Squats even any good? They look ridiculous for a start and they wouldn't be popular enough to bring back anyway.

Manchu wrote:- Squats are a ripoff of fantasy dwarves/dwarfs: your point? (ahem, Eldar)

My point is, Eldar are no longer simply fantasy elves with spaceships. The Webway, Spirit Stones, Aspect Warrior paths, and a host of other things are not just simple rips from fantasy to 40k. Squat fluff hasn't been developed like that, their clan structure, living in mountain fortresses, ancestor worship, and so on come right from fantasy.

- Squats have a silly name: granted but so what? (Eldar v. Dark Eldar, the names of all SM Chapters, etc)

What do you mean so what? 'Squat' is a funny sounding word with unfortunate connotations. In my experience, the first response to people hearing of them is to snicker over the name. I don't know of any other armies that have this problem, aside from obscure Space Marine chapters that GW doesn't bring up any more (Rainbow Warriors). You may not like the "Space Wolves", and may think that "Dark Eldar" shows a lack of creativity, but I've never heard someone snickering about their name when they first heard it.

- Squats as an army are redundant: let's see here, would you rather play Space Marines? Dark Angels? Space Wolves? Black Templars? Blood Angels? Grey Templars? Chaos Space Marines?

Let's see here, your solution is to add 'short marines with potbellied terminator armor'? The fact that there are lots of marine codexes has nothing to do with whether a squat codex would be a good idea, it's irrelevant. It would only make sense if the choice was between 'another marine codex' and 'a squat codex', which is not what the poll says and certainly wasn't what I was saying.

Aside from the proliferation of marine chapters (who IMO should really just have two main variants, the 'pretty normal' marines and the 'raging melee lunatics'), each army has a really distinct playstyle now, sometimes several. The game has come a long way from the days when Imperials, Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids all used the same equipment. What unique aspects were there to the old Squat army in 40k that you think should be brought forward - bikes, lasguns, artillery, and slow terminator armor don't seem all that compelling to me?

- Squats as a fluff concept are redundant: saying they overlap with Ad Mech is pretty lame; as has already been pointed out, Squats not only scoff at notions of the Omnissiah (they worshipped their ancestors like most dwarves/dwarfs, which could be given very cool twists in a scifi setting), but they also advocate technological innovation

Saying a valid point is pretty lame is pretty lame itself - the squats can't come back in their old position within the Imperium, the AM took it over. Either GW would have to scrap a lot of what's been developed for the AM, which they're not going to do, or they'd need a completely new setup for how the squats relate to the Imperium.

The Adeptus Mechanicus are allied to and incorporated with the Imperium but have their own religion and basically seperate government, and provide high technology and maintain equipment the squats were... what the AM have become now. It doesn't matter that some details about the squats are different (like what their religion is), the fact is that their old position in the Imperium has been taken over by the AM.

Should they have their own army? I don't know. A lot has changed in 40k since they last had one. But they shouldn't have been "squatted."

They needed to be 'squatted'. Huge chunks of the squat background would need to be completely changed to fit them into 40k now, and the name would need to change to avoid embarassment for players and to encourage sales. Trying to modernize the squats to fit into current 40k and rationalize it to fit back with 20-year-old fluff would just alienate the 'Squats4Ever' diehards, who aren't going to be happy with all the changes while constraining the new army.

Far better IMO to let old squats remain eaten and make a completely new Army of some kind of space dwarf that isn't constrained by trying to fit the old stuff. Take the good stuff from squats like the epic war engines, throw in some callbacks to the old stuff and in-jokes based on it, then use the fresh start to give them their own place in 40k. Well-done space dwarves would be nice, I just don't see any reason to tie it to the old squats.