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EmpBobo wrote:Um, where does it say that you should ignore the section in the Daemons codex where it says if the pink horrors roll a miscast instead of rolling on the miscast table they take d6 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed?

*enter dramatic music bum bum buuuuuuum*

Cuz this thread isn't dealing with a miscast the horrors themselfs made.
We've been mostly dealing with a case of a 8-9 miscast from elswhere in the army.

Horrors as models can not channel, they can only channel as a unit. The miscast result says models that can channel and not units therefore they don't take a hit. As for the mount, I have no idea. I personally can see it going both ways, the rider hit alone or the hit being randomized.

Hmmm so by raw, the unit wouldnt take a hit. Interesting..

That's the way it looks, since the 8-9 result on the miscast table specifies "every model on the same side that can channel/generate power or dispel dice".

You start a turn and the Horror unit rolls to channel an extra power die. Now point out which Horror or Horrors in the unit channeled the power die, or even which models in the unit even can channel that power die. Note the contrast with a wizard on a mount, in that you can point to the wizard and say, "That's the model (the wizard on the mount) that can channel power dice."

You could work it the other way though saying since not one but all do it together they all take a str6 hit. Even though this isn't a RAI forum, I believe it's supposed to be one hit against the unit.

One per unit is a nice compromise, i still woudn't make a DoC player take a hit unless he really insists on it

I'm vindictive, i might make a DoC player takes it for being a DoC player

/bad memories of 7th ed. *shudders*

I didn't play till 8th so i have no such problems

Can someone post the full rules for how the Horror's work for this? That might help clear some things up.

Basically the UNIT counts as a wizard of X level based on how many models are in the unit.

Surtur wrote:Can someone post the full rules for how the Horror's work for this? That might help clear some things up.

No we cannot lest the GW law hounds decend upon dakka and destroy us all.

Theyre ninja attack pandas, not hounds!

I'm tempted to think that both the rider and mount take the hit, as they do in the case of a cannonball strike.

Durzod wrote:I'm tempted to think that both the rider and mount take the hit, as they do in the case of a cannonball strike.

Ok, explain why to the rest of us?

It states in the armybook
"A unit of Pink Horrors is a Wizard that can cast spells from the Daemon Lore of Tzeentch"
Don't know how helpful it will be for the discussion but there it is.

Also from the Tzeentch magic section of the demon armybook its also says
"A unit of Pink Horrors is considered to be a single wizard with its own magic level..."
Once more I don't think that helped but there is the wording from the book again.

On a personal note and with the lack of an official ruling I think I'd just treat the entire unit as being a wizard for the purpose of damage and not every individual model but then I'm more interested with getting the dispute out of the way and the game going then being making sure the rules are more accurately followed which might be why my input isn't too helpful... and I lose a lot of games.

Hmm, if that's the exact wording, I'm leaning towards the "no hits" ruling.

Is it possible for there to be 1/2 of a wizard, 1/3rd, 1/4th, 1/5th, 1/6th, 1/10th, etc?

Because a single horror in that unit is certainly not a wizard
OTHERWISE
"The casting player rolls a D6 for each of his Wizards. An extra power dice is added to the pool for each roll of a 6."

A)
If 1/10th of a Wizard (one horror in a unit of 10) COUNTS AS a wizard then each horror gets to channel AND each horror would be vulnerable to a S6 hit.

The alternatives
B)
Since the one unit represents one wizard somehow, it gets to channel once, and takes one S6 hit.
C)
Since no actual models in the unit are wizards, none of the single models can channel and none are hit by the damage.

B and C are both fine to me, neither is extreme. The 10 channelers obliterated by 10 S6 things seems a very illogical ruling to me considering the models themselves have no wizarding level.

Fraction or not, the miscast table doesn't say "wizard" it says "models that can generate PD." Naturally a "Wizard" is a model that can generate PD, but here we are faced with the unlikely situation that a "wizard" is more than one model.
The true question is does each horror model count as channeling its one dice for the unit, does only one count as doing so, or do none count as doing so?

Since a dice can be generated by the horrors, for they are a "wizard" we can ignore the third option. And since the "unit" as a whole is counted as a "wizard" one horror cannot really be said to channel for the whole group. Thus, by the immediately previous statement, we must conclude that all of the horror models contribute to the channeling and therefor (provided the unit is still large enough to be a "wizard") all the horrors count as "models that can generate PD."

All that reasoning aside, if there is any further dispute the rulebook and FAQs are very clear in their president of 4+ or letting the player whose turn it is decide. It is advisable to simply compromise by saying one horror is a focus for their magic and thus one horror channels and one horror gets hit.

No. A model is a single figure. No single figure in a horror unit can generate power dice. It's pretty simple. As you said yourself, the "wizard" is more than one model. Therefore it can't be affected by something that affects a "model."

A unit is made of models. Collectively or even individually they are a wizard. After talking to some people, we came to the conclusion that it would take 1 hit. As it states, it counts as a single wizard, a single model is determined for the purpose of who is casting and this was the best conclusion given the circumstances.

HoverBoy wrote:

Durzod wrote:I'm tempted to think that both the rider and mount take the hit, as they do in the case of a cannonball strike.

Ok, explain why to the rest of us?

Sorry about the late reply, but I haven't had a chance to check with my rulebook until now. I refer you to pg 105. In the section about templates it states that both the mount and rider take damage. In parentheses it says that this also includes bouncing cannonballs. Unfortunately another dig at characters riding monsters.

I agree with the analysis that says that each horror takes a hit, RAW. However, I think it's stupid. Any time I play a daemon player who uses horrors, I'll resolve this first, trying to reach the point where we just have the unit take a hit.