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Scenario, Herald of tzeentch causes an IF/miscast, and rolls an 8 or 9. Does EACH horror suffer a str 6 hit, or just 1 horror in the regiment?

I would say each horror takes a hit, since it says each model that can generate PD, not each unit.

The whole unit is a wizzard so it would stand as logical that it can be effected by one S6 hit, the rules for the miscast however don't tell you to resolve hits against units or wizzards – it calls for models, so each horror model takes a hit.

Each horror takes a hit, as it specifies models.

Yes, this means it sucks horribly.

Ouchie thats gotta hurt 0.0

Oh well, daemons were so op in 7th edition, I think they can take a hit or two...

Daemons as an army werent OP, there were 2 lists that were stupid broken that people abused.

Blue scribes+kairos+ lots of heralds with +1 PD

MAsque+Kipper+Banner of daemonic legions.

The army is a great place in 8th edition however. But yeah, I think that each model would take the Str6 hit, and i play the army.

I think the unit only suffers a single str 6 hit since the unit as a whole is consider to be a single wizard as per the codex. Also they can not generate or cast anything on their own, only when a pink horror unit is large enough can it do anything. But since the codex says it counts as a single wizard I would only make my opponent take one str 6 hit on the unit. Until they faq something like this it is really up to you and your opponent to decide before the game how you want to resolve it. Some will argue it both ways I prefer to be more sporting about it, but if GW faqs it to say they all each take a hit that would be great too

And as a new player i prefer to follow the rules to avoid confusion
And the rules are quit clear every model takes a hit.
Rough brake for daemons but they had a good run last ed.

Shivan - the BT led army was also broken, with a jugger BSB + murder banner with Hounds.

Horrors as core plus tzeentch chariots / discs knowing full lores completed a horribly effective army. We hardly saw kipper lists, but that was mainlyh because they were only broken with Masque, and most tournaments (non-GW) in UK dont allow SCs.

On a simmilar note:
Since the miscast hits on a per model basis, how exactly would this work against a wizzard on a monster?
As we have proven over multyple threads they are one model so things start getting a bit iffy now, is the rider, hit is it the monster, is it randomised?

The unit as a whole is a wizard. The unit takes one hit. Unless you want daemon players to start channeling with each horror model.

On a simmilar note:
Since the miscast hits on a per model basis, how exactly would this work against a wizzard on a monster?
As we have proven over multyple threads they are one model so things start getting a bit iffy now, is the rider, hit is it the monster, is it randomised?

Since the dragon/whatever is not casting a spell, I'd say it is unnaffected. In the horror case, all the horrors use the spell together, and so all are affected by miscast.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:The unit as a whole is a wizard. The unit takes one hit. Unless you want daemon players to start channeling with each horror model.

Umm the rules for the 8-9 result clearly say it hits on a per model basis not per unit.

Saintspirit wrote:

On a simmilar note:
Since the miscast hits on a per model basis, how exactly would this work against a wizzard on a monster?
As we have proven over multyple threads they are one model so things start getting a bit iffy now, is the rider, hit is it the monster, is it randomised?

Since the dragon/whatever is not casting a spell, I'd say it is unnaffected. In the horror case, all the horrors use the spell together, and so all are affected by miscast.

Cept he dosen't have to be the one doin the miscastin to be hit on said 8-9, which is the topic of this thread. Hence me asking, what do we in that case

Saintspirit wrote:

On a simmilar note:
Since the miscast hits on a per model basis, how exactly would this work against a wizzard on a monster?
As we have proven over multyple threads they are one model so things start getting a bit iffy now, is the rider, hit is it the monster, is it randomised?

Since the dragon/whatever is not casting a spell, I'd say it is unnaffected. In the horror case, all the horrors use the spell together, and so all are affected by miscast.

Cept he dosen't have to be the one doin the miscastin to be hit on said 8-9, which is the topic of this thread. Hence me asking, what do we in that case

No, everyone who can generate PD is affected, right? And I'm pretty sure the dragon/whatever can't do that.

Yes he can, for the purpoces of this specific miscasts everything is done on a per model basis, lloking at it from that perspective the model can generate both power and dispel dice since it has a wizzard as part of it's combined characteristic, and thus the question remains.

After rethinking it the unit should take one Str 6 hit. I know it says "the model" but normally wizards are just one model. The horrers are cummunitively one wizard.

If someone said every model should have to take a str6 hit i would say that every model should get to channel then.

Yes he can, for the purpoces of this specific miscasts everything is done on a per model basis, lloking at it from that perspective the model can generate both power and dispel dice since it has a wizzard as part of it's combined characteristic, and thus the question remains.

But since the monster and the rider can be attacked separately, and the special rules that stands for characters riding monsters don't normally apply to the monster (like using spells), I still think the monster is unaffected.

If someone said every model should have to take a str6 hit i would say that every model should get to channel then.

Now that you mention it, I think you're on to something there...

Saintspirit wrote:But since the monster and the rider can be attacked separately, and the special rules that stands for characters riding monsters don't normally apply to the monster (like using spells), I still think the monster is unaffected.

As much as i agree the wizzard should be the one to take the hit, it has been proven time and time again on this forum that the ability to damage the monster and rider separately dosen't do anything when things are done on a per model basis, i'm just qurious of the RAW (if any) that would apply in this situation.

Would be page 105, that's the only I can think of.

Saintspirit wrote:Would be page 105, that's the only I can think of.

You misunderstand, the rules on page 105 are quite clear indeed.
It is the fact that the miscast dosent specify wizzard but rather model, and the rules on page 104 are also clear on the fact a rider and his mount are one model, regardless of the type of mount.
So we would actually have to randomise as explained on page 105, which is weird.

ShivanAngel wrote:After rethinking it the unit should take one Str 6 hit. I know it says "the model" but normally wizards are just one model. The horrers are cummunitively one wizard.

If someone said every model should have to take a str6 hit i would say that every model should get to channel then.

Yep. I'll take my 30+ channel rolls thank you!

ChaosChris wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:After rethinking it the unit should take one Str 6 hit. I know it says "the model" but normally wizards are just one model. The horrers are cummunitively one wizard.

If someone said every model should have to take a str6 hit i would say that every model should get to channel then.

Yep. I'll take my 30+ channel rolls thank you!

Sadly no as chanelling isn't on a per model basis, it's on a per wizzard basis, and the army book is clear that the entire unit is one wizzard.
There have beed several attemts on this thread to swap the meaning of terms that are not synonymous in the rules or anywhere else for that matter.
These are as follows: Model; Unit; Wizzard. they may apply to the same things at times, but that in no way makes them the same all the time.

HoverBoy wrote:

ChaosChris wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:After rethinking it the unit should take one Str 6 hit. I know it says "the model" but normally wizards are just one model. The horrers are cummunitively one wizard.

If someone said every model should have to take a str6 hit i would say that every model should get to channel then.

Yep. I'll take my 30+ channel rolls thank you!

Sadly no as chanelling isn't on a per model basis, it's on a per wizzard basis, and the army book is clear that the entire unit is one wizzard.
There have beed several attemts on this thread to swap the meaning of terms that are not synonymous in the rules or anywhere else for that matter.
These are as follows: Model; Unit; Wizzard. they may apply to the same things at times but that in no way makes them the same.

And then, the whole unit would only take one hit, right?
I am so confused...

Saintspirit wrote:And then, the whole unit would only take one hit, right?
I am so confused...

No the term unit isn't mentioned anywhere in the miscast, instead it hits every model so every model that can channel takes the hit. The entire horror unit can channel so every model in it is hit.

Actually, by RaW, the horrors wouldn't take any hits.

No horror is "a model that can channel/generate power dice." Therefore, none of them take a str 6 hit.

Except every model isnt a wizard. The entire unit is ONE wizard. You cant have ONE wizard take multiple hits. Therefor the entire unit should take one hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Killjoy00 wrote:Actually, by RaW, the horrors wouldn't take any hits.

No horror is "a model that can channel/generate power dice." Therefore, none of them take a str 6 hit.

he is right, it says every model that can generate power or dispell dice take a str6 hit. As a single model they CANNOT generate dispell or power dice. Unless you want me to start channeling for each model. If it said every unit that can generate power or dispell dice then they the argument could continue.

ShivanAngel wrote:Except every model isnt a wizard. The entire unit is ONE wizard. You cant have ONE wizard take multiple hits. Therefor the entire unit should take one hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Killjoy00 wrote:Actually, by RaW, the horrors wouldn't take any hits.

No horror is "a model that can channel/generate power dice." Therefore, none of them take a str 6 hit.

he is right, it says every model that can generate power or dispell dice take a str6 hit. As a single model they CANNOT generate dispell or power dice. Unless you want me to start channeling for each model. If it said every unit that can generate power or dispell dice then they the argument could continue.

Hmm let me check...
Yup no hits.

All thats left now is to resolve the ridden monster issue and this thread is done.

Um, where does it say that you should ignore the section in the Daemons codex where it says if the pink horrors roll a miscast instead of rolling on the miscast table they take d6 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed?

Cause this is a miscast by another wizard on the table that causes a str6 hit to all other models that can channel dice.

Also the rider takes the str6 hit, because its the part of the monster that can channel/dispell.

or if all else fails randomize, 1-4 monster, 5-6 rider.