Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hulksmash wrote:Ahhh, but how many space wolf players were there?

A lot.

Strange event. I finished 2-0-3; no idea on overall standings, as I bailed before the outcome was announced. I'm going to sleep on my thoughts, and try to make them coherent - there were both positives and negatives, and I want to be constructive in my feedback.

Horribly ran tourney/ set of missions. (especially the last mission) From what I could tell judges didn't know the rules real well. Judging of painting scores and army composition scores were done pretty poorly ( I for one somehow managed to score pretty low comp and i was using 2 whirlwinds, and having flamers and combi flamers in all but 1 tactical squad. Were as my friend using thunder wolve's all wound allocation-ed up and my other buddie using 6 predators scored better then me HA. I guess having 9 easy to kill attack bikes is "cheesy")

Didn't look like they REALLY looked at everyone's models after looking at a couple of peoples score sheets. I really dont know what they were doing when it came down to judging paint/ modeling. Hell my friend had a fully converted up Chaos nurgle army. Im talking every single model was converted and he somehow didnt get points for having any conversions. Nor did he get points for adding extra work to the basing (when he did indeed add bitz). He even had a display board and didn't even get a point for it. Sad I tell you, he had a very nice looking army with a lot of work put into it.

But yes It was my first GT and will probably be my last after having that experience. Was shocked at how much they were trying to change the rules in all the missions. One of my buddies even won all 5 of his games and had a fully painted army and somehow managed to not win anything haha. Classic.

But yes i ended my record with 2 wins 2 ties and a Lost to another one of my friends. (the nurgle list)

Well, the experience is one sliver of the tourney life. Try another one and see if the results are different.

italiaplaya wrote:Horribly ran tourney/ set of missions. (especially the last mission) From what I could tell judges didn't know the rules real well. Judging of painting scores and army composition scores were done pretty poorly ( I for one somehow managed to score pretty low comp and i was using 2 whirlwinds, and having flamers and combi flamers in all but 1 tactical squad. Were as my friend using thunder wolve's all wound allocation-ed up and my other buddie using 6 predators scored better then me HA. I guess having 9 easy to kill attack bikes is "cheesy")

Didn't look like they REALLY looked at everyone's models after looking at a couple of peoples score sheets. I really dont know what they were doing when it came down to judging paint/ modeling. Hell my friend had a fully converted up Chaos nurgle army. Im talking every single model was converted and he somehow didnt get points for having any conversions. Nor did he get points for adding extra work to the basing (when he did indeed add bitz). He even had a display board and didn't even get a point for it. Sad I tell you, he had a very nice looking army with a lot of work put into it.

But yes It was my first GT and will probably be my last after having that experience. Was shocked at how much they were trying to change the rules in all the missions. One of my buddies even won all 5 of his games and had a fully painted army and somehow managed to not win anything haha. Classic.

But yes i ended my record with 2 wins 2 ties and a Lost to another one of my friends. (the nurgle list)

Well, to be fair, you deserved a low comp score. They just deserved even lower comps...

And I think the nurgle list was TOO well converted. The guy built plague marines out of putty and vanilla marine tactical squads and they looked so much like the real thing that you wouldn't know that they were converted unless you picked them up and realized they were plastic. But he definitely missed a few other points he should have gotten not related to that.

And that last mission was absurd.

But whatever, I had fun

Here's the army I took. (NOT the nurgle list italiaplaya is talking about, but I'm still proud):

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/320527.page

If you recognize this army and you played me let me know! All my opponents were pretty cool.

WarOne wrote:Well, the experience is one sliver of the tourney life. Try another one and see if the results are different.

There arn't a lot of GT's around here unless i want to drive out to So Cal. But after that experience I dont know if it would even be worth it.

Anyways, everyone i played was great no real problems there. Had a good time for the most part playing the actual game.

Yeah, I had some doubt's about the judge's knowledge in the fantasy battles also, but since the rulebook is only 4 months old, I couldn't really get too upset, as lots of us still get 7th/8th mixed up a little.

As far as the painting/modeling I didn't see any errors, but then again I only saw the scores for the three of us that went, none were fantastically painted and scored accordingly (around 28).

I think the reason there might be some complaints, is they doubled their capacity from last year, that's a lot more people to try and accommodate and if you aren't ready for it, can cause some problems. If they keep it the same size next year, I bet it's a lot smoother, as they'll be completely ready for it.

It was my first GT experience also, and have to say it was very fun, since all of my opponents were pretty good guys with decent lists. Even though I got stuck playing against my brother in the second round. >.<

whocares wrote:

italiaplaya wrote:Horribly ran tourney/ set of missions. (especially the last mission) From what I could tell judges didn't know the rules real well. Judging of painting scores and army composition scores were done pretty poorly ( I for one somehow managed to score pretty low comp and i was using 2 whirlwinds, and having flamers and combi flamers in all but 1 tactical squad. Were as my friend using thunder wolve's all wound allocation-ed up and my other buddie using 6 predators scored better then me HA. I guess having 9 easy to kill attack bikes is "cheesy")

Didn't look like they REALLY looked at everyone's models after looking at a couple of peoples score sheets. I really dont know what they were doing when it came down to judging paint/ modeling. Hell my friend had a fully converted up Chaos nurgle army. Im talking every single model was converted and he somehow didnt get points for having any conversions. Nor did he get points for adding extra work to the basing (when he did indeed add bitz). He even had a display board and didn't even get a point for it. Sad I tell you, he had a very nice looking army with a lot of work put into it.

But yes It was my first GT and will probably be my last after having that experience. Was shocked at how much they were trying to change the rules in all the missions. One of my buddies even won all 5 of his games and had a fully painted army and somehow managed to not win anything haha. Classic.

But yes i ended my record with 2 wins 2 ties and a Lost to another one of my friends. (the nurgle list)

Well, to be fair, you deserved a low comp score. They just deserved even lower comps...

And I think the nurgle list was TOO well converted. The guy built plague marines out of putty and vanilla marine tactical squads and they looked so much like the real thing that you wouldn't know that they were converted unless you picked them up and realized they were plastic. But he definitely missed a few other points he should have gotten not related to that.

And that last mission was absurd.

But whatever, I had fun

Here's the army I took. (NOT the nurgle list italiaplaya is talking about, but I'm still proud):

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/320527.page

If you recognize this army and you played me let me know! All my opponents were pretty cool.

Haha he built them out of putty and chaos marine box sets . Its true however that they did look really close to the actual plague marine models. But then again they should have actually looked at them closely to see all the work put into them.

Yes your army was very nice looking as well and had some nice custom work. Never saw the chosen you converted up till the picture but they look really good. Very nice work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also heres some random picture I took of some of the tables. They had a huge turnout.



And of the army I brought. (Not completely finished painted but had 3 colors on everything that wasnt) One of my buddies let me borrow it since i wasnt going to have enough time to finish up my army.

Da Grand Waaagh! was my first tournament, and I had a great time. Right now I'm looking over the schedule of events, and trying to figure whether it's worth the weekend of my wife gambling to play in Los Vegas, such was the fun.

Of my play local play group, I was the only guy to go; I didn't know anybody there, but found every -- and to my surprise -- kind and sporting. I worried (a little) that I would encounter the rude, Comic-Book-Guy archetype we all know & dread. I really understand the value of the sportsmanship portion, at least as it affects my own behavior; it is really easy to remind somebody that he didn't shoot with a unit, etc, when such is in your own best interest.

Lamentably, I didn't get the chance to explore the aircraft carrier. However, all that fresh air was a pleasant change to the fetid dungeon that is my typical game spot.

I can't speak to the criticism above, as to the fairness of paint scores; I can say that my army was the worst painted there; the average army was to these wonder-worn eyes quite the sight.

The final mission wasn't all that bad; there's a lot worse in the battle book. The theme was interesting: undetermined aims. That being said, I played it just awfully. Part of the problem was the terrain I was against: very little high ground that was accessible, and the inaccessible killed the line of sight of my shooty orks.

Once again, this was my first tournament, and have nothing to judge it against. That being said, I would pay the sixty-five bucks again, and take the day off work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, seeing the table picture in Italiaplaya's post above reminds me: there was a huge amount of terrain on the tables, and there were a lot of tables. My local guys, the guys who didn't come, warned me to expect very little. I was pleased.

From the picture the terrain looks excellent and even well placed (which is where a lot of events fall down). I'm looking forward to next year as I'll have to make the drive up that way. Reece doesn't know it yet but someone is crashing with him

I'll hope they drop 40k comp next year. Sports I can tolerate since I always max it with a few favored opponents in there but comp makes my skin crawl Looking forward to some more reviews and seeing what Mr. Janth has to say about it!

Hmmm.

Complaints about subjective soft scores.

Complaints about homemade missions.

Hahahaha, sound familiar to anyone?

The future is the no-comp, missions out of the book tournament. You don't hear anything about those other than how good they were.

Well, I am glad everyone seems to have had fun. Doesn't sound like I missed too much, although I would have loved to meet some gamers in my new home.

@italiaplaya

Don't be too hasty to judge. Tournaments are great fun, most of the guys who get into it end up going to tons of them because they are such good fun. Maybe they aren't for you, but give a SoCal GW tournament a try. Like the SoCal Slaughter or the SoCal Smackdown. Those are excellent events and great fun.

You got low comp? Why? Because of the spammed attack bikes?

Ach, Comp systems are wretched. Even the one I was playing around with ended up being stupid. Your list is totally fine. Any legal list is fine.

@whocares

What about that list prompts you to say he deserved a low comp score? I am honestly curious. If I saw that list across the table form me I wouldn't even bat an eye. If anything it looks like a themed Sallie list. Given, I never cry cheese about anything so long as it's legal, but I am trying to get my head around why someone would think that list was overpowered when, to me, it clearly is not.

@Janthkin

I am curious to hear what you have to say, buddy. Sounds like you came up against some tough competition. Are you going to post any bat reps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Hulk

Ah yeah brother, you can count on staying at my place, no doubt!

"Yes your army was very nice looking as well and had some nice custom work. Never saw the chosen you converted up till the picture but they look really good. Very nice work."

Thanks!

thunderingjove wrote:Oh, seeing the table picture in Italiaplaya's post above reminds me: there was a huge amount of terrain on the tables, and there were a lot of tables. My local guys, the guys who didn't come, warned me to expect very little. I was pleased.

Yeah, this is true.

In most big tournaments you'd be lucky to have a tree on your table. I was very happy with the terrain.

Reecius wrote:Hmmm.

Complaints about subjective soft scores.

Complaints about homemade missions.

Hahahaha, sound familiar to anyone?

The future is the no-comp, missions out of the book tournament. You don't hear anything about those other than how good they were.

Well, I am glad everyone seems to have had fun. Doesn't sound like I missed too much, although I would have loved to meet some gamers in my new home.

@italiaplaya

Don't be too hasty to judge. Tournaments are great fun, most of the guys who get into it end up going to tons of them because they are such good fun. Maybe they aren't for you, but give a SoCal GW tournament a try. Like the SoCal Slaughter or the SoCal Smackdown. Those are excellent events and great fun.

You got low comp? Why? Because of the spammed attack bikes?

Ach, Comp systems are wretched. Even the one I was playing around with ended up being stupid. Your list is totally fine. Any legal list is fine.

@whocares

What about that list prompts you to say he deserved a low comp score? I am honestly curious. If I saw that list across the table form me I wouldn't even bat an eye. If anything it looks like a themed Sallie list. Given, I never cry cheese about anything so long as it's legal, but I am trying to get my head around why someone would think that list was overpowered when, to me, it clearly is not.

@Janthkin

I am curious to hear what you have to say, buddy. Sounds like you came up against some tough competition. Are you going to post any bat reps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Hulk

Ah yeah brother, you can count on staying at my place, no doubt!

Well I always attend tournaments locally and within a hour or 2 driving distance. But who knows I may give GT's another chance sometime in the future. A drive to So Cal wouldnt be to bad i suppose if some friends came along. (I went for ard boyz this year and it was just fine.)

Ya I had a themed Sallie list with vulkan. Lots of flamers and meltas. It was either the attack bikes, or the command squad in the drop pod with 4 flamers a commander, and vulkan attracted to it that did.. I dont really see how i scored low. But it happened haha.

Yeah, that's the thing with comp scores. You're better off just bring a hard list anyway as something like what happened to you always seems to occur. Or someone with a bad ass list gets good comp! Haha, it's silly.

Better to just bring the hard list and kick the crap out of people and max battle points.

Comp is a failed concept. It is a good idea but it never, ever works. At least not that I have seen.

The drive to SoCal isn't too bad. To Anaheim or LAX I think it's about 6 hours? You could fly round trip for like $150 which is not bad at all.

Well, too bad and getting shafted on comp. Some people see Vulkan and get their panties in a bunch which is silly, he really isn't that amazing. Damn good, but not game breaking by any stretch of the imagination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The terrain does look excellent though. My Footdar would have loved those boards.

Reecius wrote:
The future is the no-comp, missions out of the book tournament. You don't hear anything about those other than how good they were.

Well, I am glad everyone seems to have had fun. Doesn't sound like I missed too much, although I would have loved to meet some gamers in my new home.

Ach, Comp systems are wretched.

Not to be stupid (this was my first tournament), but I have to ask: "comp" is "Army Composition" scoring, right? I got a four out of five; that there were a few "tricks," but fair to play against. I accept that; I did spam: two SAG Big Meks, three loota squads, three barrages of Zzap Guns. I think was saved me against spamming was a used units considered uncompetitive; that is, the SAG and the Zzaps.

By "out of the book," do you mean the Missions Book?

Reecius wrote:What about that list prompts you to say he deserved a low comp score? I am honestly curious. If I saw that list across the table form me I wouldn't even bat an eye. If anything it looks like a themed Sallie list. Given, I never cry cheese about anything so long as it's legal, but I am trying to get my head around why someone would think that list was overpowered when, to me, it clearly is not.

I just want to preface this by saying that I don't like comp scores at all. I'm with you in that I think so long as an army is legal, let me at it. It's such a subjective score, and there are so many lists that are "cheesy" until they run into the rock to their scissors.

But that said...

Salamanders (according to the fluff) don't do the fast attack at all. In their first codex they were even limited on fast attack choices. So nine attack bikes goes totally against the fluff, which is fine, but that sort of factors into the comp score.

Also, it is a fairly strong list. Sure, the attack bikes can be easy to kill. But with Vulcan all those multi meltas are twin linked. And that command squad can go crazy with 4 flamers and a heavy flamer with rerolls to wound.

So, essentially, the list was built neither for "fun" (how you define that I have no idea, but it's the way people usually put having a less than competitive list because they just like, say, storm guardians) and it wasn't fluffy. So it was built to win, which you can figure is going to drive the comp score down just about every time. Now, I know you're probably thinking "hey! you're saying he should be penalized for wanting to win!" And, as counter-intuitive as that is, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. He should be penalized for fielding an army designed to win. If you have a problem with that philosophy, then you have a problem with comp scores. (which, obviously, both you and I DO) But GTs have comp scores. That's a part of the format. *shrug*

Also note, I'm not saying he should get the lowest comp score. But he shouldn't get a particularly good one, either.

And, for the record, I'm the guy he borrowed the army from. So I'm basically knocking my own list here.

Who here is from the bay area who went? im assuming most of you!

Reecius wrote:Yeah, that's the thing with comp scores. You're better off just bring a hard list anyway as something like what happened to you always seems to occur. Or someone with a bad ass list gets good comp! Haha, it's silly.

Better to just bring the hard list and kick the crap out of people and max battle points.

Comp is a failed concept. It is a good idea but it never, ever works. At least not that I have seen.

The drive to SoCal isn't too bad. To Anaheim or LAX I think it's about 6 hours? You could fly round trip for like $150 which is not bad at all.

Well, too bad and getting shafted on comp. Some people see Vulkan and get their panties in a bunch which is silly, he really isn't that amazing. Damn good, but not game breaking by any stretch of the imagination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The terrain does look excellent though. My Footdar would have loved those boards.

Ya thinking back on it now and looking at the scores I got on painting and comp. I should have just had brought out my orks. Even with them not being painted haha.

150 on top of the price of a GT, food and other random expenses. Better driving down with a group of people and each fading a little cash on gas.

Hes nothing to crazy, but on the other hand any character that is T4 and can be instant killed is not very favored by me haha. But he made the list work with the models my friends had, what can i say.

I played Italiaplaya and thought his list was fine. However, the mission we played (the last one) was pretty lame in my opinion. Way too many special cases and rules modifications.

I thought the painting scores were way off. My buddy who went to the tourney with me always jokes about his painting. He has Tyranids that are based black and have a bit of purple and green on them. He made a display board the night before the tourney out of cardboard and got a 20. I'm not a great painter, but I spent a bit of time and had details on all my units. I also had a display board with some terrain on it. I got a 23.

As far as comp scores go they are subjective and subjective scores are always going to be a problem. My thought is if you are going to a tourney you are probably trying to win. If you are trying to win you are going to make a tough list. If you can legally make a tough list why wouldn't you?

@Italia: what did you get on comp, anyway?

I would have given that list a 3.

It's definitely not a 1 or a 2, but I don't think it deserved a 4 or 5, either. Just a nice, solid 3.

It was Sean's comp that was bs...

But whatever.

I did have a good time. I'd rather have nice terrain and wonky comp scores than the other way around.

a1steaks wrote:I played Italiaplaya and thought his list was fine. However, the mission we played (the last one) was pretty lame in my opinion. Way too many special cases and rules modifications.

I thought the painting scores were way off. My buddy who went to the tourney with me always jokes about his painting. He has Tyranids that are based black and have a bit of purple and green on them. He made a display board the night before the tourney out of cardboard and got a 20. I'm not a great painter, but I spent a bit of time and had details on all my units. I also had a display board with some terrain on it. I got a 23.

As far as comp scores go they are subjective and subjective scores are always going to be a problem. My thought is if you are going to a tourney you are probably trying to win. If you are trying to win you are going to make a tough list. If you can legally make a tough list why wouldn't you?

Ah good to see some one i played is a dakkadakka memeber haha. You were the space wolve player in the last game right.

But you have it right the painting, modeling and, comp scores were way off. I think the main problem was it wasn't very consistent from army to army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

whocares wrote:@Italia: what did you get on comp, anyway?

I would have given that list a 3.

It's definitely not a 1 or a 2, but I don't think it deserved a 4 or 5, either. Just a nice, solid 3.

It was Sean's comp that was bs...

But whatever.

I did have a good time. I'd rather have nice terrain and wonky comp scores than the other way around.

If i remember correctly I believe it was a 2. However it may have been a 3, pretty sure it was a 2 though. I left my paper in the car. I thought i deserved a 4 to be honest with you. Who do you see play with 2 whirlwinds other then yourself? Haha, i could have had a Dev. squad.

But ya other then all of that. I enjoyed the games I had and the people i played against. Didnt have to deal with any asshats, as Sean would say haha.

Don't hate on my whirlwinds, man!

DON'T HATE ON MY F%$#ING WHIRLWINDS

When you bring the whirlwinds into it, s*^t gets personal.

@Whocares,

I just saw your Aspiring Champion: damn, freaking masterful, and well conceived!

@italia: Yeah I was the SW player you played last. I got a 2 on comp by the way.

thunderingjove wrote:@Whocares,

I just saw your Aspiring Champion: damn, freaking masterful, and well conceived!

Thanks.

@A1steaks,

What didn't they like about your list? I don't think we met at the tournament.

a1steaks wrote:@italia: Yeah I was the SW player you played last. I got a 2 on comp by the way.

Really? I believe i scored the same. I gave you a 3 if you were wondering. I think you scored low because of the 2 dev missile squads and the thunder wolves. Atleast all of yours didnt have storm shields. My buddies army however that did have all storm shields and ran 2 squads of 3 with 2 lords some how managed to get a 3 comp score. Weird i know lol. He ended up going 5 and 0 and didnt win anything.

@thunderingjove: I think we played each other in the first game. I was the Space Wolves player with the tattoos. You played the Ork list with a bunch of zap guns and 2 big meks right?

@Whocares

That's the thing, in the fluff, it mentions nothing about Sallies not using fast attack or being slower than other MEQ's anymore.

That always bugs me about comp scores based on fluff. The fluff changes every edition! You can't expect people to be held to a standard that no longer exists.

And actually, most GT's are moving away from or to minimal comp. I thought the same thing but was recently shown that all the big events apart from Da Grand WAGHH! and the Broadside Bash are either no comp or going to a no comp format. Like you said, penalizing someone for bringing a competitive list to a competitive event is silly.

@Thunderingjove
Yeah, your comp score is the score a judge or your opponent gives you base don their opinion of how powerful your army is. It sucks.

If the judges were consistent they should have knocked everyone who spamed, not just some people based on their subjective opinion of what is good and what is not. That is a perfect example of why comp blows.

At any rate, it sounds like people had fun which is the most important thing. Hopefully they get their system tuned better for next year as they seem to have a strong following developing.

I woke up at 5 am Sunday with a terrible stomach bug which I am sadly still coping with, so I ended up missing the second day, and have no idea how my soft scores or anything were. I don't have a lot of elaborate observations, but I did think that the missions tended to encourage draws, by demanding such large margins of victory.

It's also worth noting that the sound system was difficult to hear if you were in the Table 33 to 35 range, and absolutely deafening if you were next to it. I think that the sound system was largely responsible for why neither my opponent nor I (nor, apparently, several other people) had any idea that Mission 3 was actually supposed to use the 4th mission in the book. The sound system (and the incredibly strict enforcement of "dice down") also meant that one game ended with my opponent having received a full extra turn, which is always a frustrating outcome, especially since he so clearly felt bad about it and wasn't trying to abuse the clock.

I got a 1 comp with my big bugs, but I asked a pair of other Tyranid players with wildly vaied lists and they also got 1. hehe
(Note: I hate comp, but that is not related)

I did well enough, I guess? Last round on table nine and tied.

But I think 80+% tied that mission. (Round one saw one of my models deployed vs 56 enemy models-who went first and included a heavy weapons team in impassable terrain 12" above the center of the table)

I had 5 great games and a lot of fun.

(2wins 3 ties)