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A gun you use now-a-days could blow up if not properly cleaned. That was really the way it was back then, although it was more frequent that the Black Powder used was tainted and therefore dangerous.

Although you do have a point there, what kind of a person WOULD use a weapon that would kill themselves that easily.

I spent 15yr's in the military and trust me when I tell you. No soldier nowadays would go in to the armoury and pluck a weapon that had a 16.666% chance of blowing up in their face everytime it was fired and even if you didn't clean modern weaponry, it would have a much lower chance of killing you. More chance of some idiot taking you out with an ND or having a fatal transport accident.

Let's face it 40k is not the 15th century in any shape or form. For a start it's a game LOL. But being reasonable within the game. Their weaponry is well maintained and after all, they are Astartes, the finest man has to offer. If they can't maintain their weapons? Then leave it to the IG to defend man.

I take the point about SM's overpowering the weapon and lost tech meaning it has become unstable but even still. You would have to have a death wish to draw the weapon. I can just picture a devastator squad armed with PC's laughing as they watched their numbers dwindle during the battle. Well thats what you possibly get with Plasma roulette.

Suicidal Cheez wrote:I do agree. Why would anyone who isn't a depressed samasochist pick up a weapon that will explode and painfully burn him to death after 6 shots?

I understand plasma clouds flying up and potentually hitting the user, but still.

Look at it this way...say your an Imperial Guardsmen. Your usual gun will barely scratch the armor on a Terminator or Marine, and only an extremely lucky shot will kill them. You get given a plasma gun, and wa lah! You can one hit kill Termies and Marines alike!

They probably also don't tell you it has a 1/6 chance of blowing up int your hands each time you shoot it.

Let's just sum up this thread...

Someone is complaining (again) that the rules make a moderately inexpensive, but rather potent, weapon risky to use. Instead of trying to play the game and praying for a 1 not to appear, this player is asking if other players feel sorry for him and his troops.

Nothing powerful ever comes without risk and/or cost. Just come to terms with it and play the #$%@#$ game!

I'd like to think I wouldn't use a weapon in real life that would blow up in my face...but then again I vote and there's really not much difference between the two.

Grakmar wrote:I agree with the insanity of using a (non-Eldar) plasma weapon. But, look at old firearms (around 15th century? any history buffs got a better timeline?). They would blow up in the user's hands rather frequently, but troops still used them in battle.

Add "non-Tau" to the parentheses. And yes, the firepowder era started around the Siege of Constantinople, 1453. 15th century. And the phenomenon of taking risks of firing weapons that could blow up in the user's hands can be called a revolution of warfare.

Don't make comments like this on Dakka please.

He's got a point you know. You are complaining that an already powerful gun isn't a complete game breaker, in which case his logic does stand. Plasma has its uses, but it does have drawbacks, as you see: expense and overheat. That's what balances it out, and makes sure no one builds a list that ONLY spams plasma because its OMG1337.

If you want a gun that's OMG1337, expect some serious drawbacks.

He may have a point but it's how he makes it and the assumptions that go with it. He could do with reading insaniaks guidance notes.

In fact I have played with Plasma's and it's just bloody annoying when you get a 1. This is why melta's are the goto weapons in most cases.

I am also not complaining about Plasma weoponry. I simply asked what others thought. I don't want to see it being the all powerful battlefied weapon, just useful and fulfill a sensible purpose. It just seems a bit redundant at the moment which is a waste in my book.

It's always possible to be more polite, yes. But as you no doubt know, the Proposed Rules forum gets flooded a lot by people posting claiming that shotguns should S5 template weapons, or that sniper rifles should instant kill everything, or all kinds of other crap. A quick glance at this thread lends credence to the idea that is just another one of those threads, no matter what you actually said.

It is bloody annoying if you roll a 1, but you're also firing a gun that cuts through Termie armor even. Melta is the go to weapon thanks to the prevalence of mech, but I personally like plasma. I run a fully plasma hosed out LR Executioner, and I find it extremely useful. Of course, I don't have to worry about overheats, but I do pay a premium.

I'd argue with you there that it seems redundant. While meltas are the common weapon right now, they also fill a niche roll. They're very close range, and their tactics involve getting up close and personal to kill things with them. For me, that means I have to deal with running a Guardsmen squad close to Termies so I can shoot them with my meltas? Why in Terra's Holy Name would I do that? I want to be able to take advantage of the melta special rule to kill tanks easier. Plasma fills the nice, especially in the IG, of being able to: a) cut through termie armor without being more useful as an AT gun (lascannons and meltas) and b) putting lots of wounds on big MC, something most Guard units can't do very well. To me, I view plasma and melta as two extremely different weapons with extremely different jobs. Melta, close up anti tank. Plasma mid range anti-Termie, Marine, and MC gun. They're different enough that I take both, and I for one am perfectly happy the way things are.

Chimaera wrote:He may have a point but it's how he makes it and the assumptions that go with it. He could do with reading insaniaks guidance notes.

In fact I have played with Plasma's and it's just bloody annoying when you get a 1. This is why melta's are the goto weapons in most cases.

I am also not complaining about Plasma weoponry. I simply asked what others thought. I don't want to see it being the all powerful battlefied weapon, just useful and fulfill a sensible purpose. It just seems a bit redundant at the moment which is a waste in my book.

In fact, no, you couldn't do "with reading insaniaks guidance notes".

Your standpoint is essentially "2 shots of St7 AP2 + 1 double-ranged St7 AP2 shot with Gets Hot! is not worth the pts and troubles compare to 1 shot of St8 AP1 with Melta rule at half the range". You raise a question of perspectives. Don't expect a non-biased anwser. Some people, like me, just think that plasma weapon is too powerful that it needs to be balanced out with a theoretically 1-in-6 chance of burning the user himself. And pray that you are talking about MEQ with plasma in this case. Cause IG with a plasma in his hand definitely die faster. But they still TAKE it, for Emperor's sake. Cause without it they die EVEN FASTER.

If you really don't like Gets Hot!, take plasma on vehicles and dreadnoughts. Ignore the rule.

ChrisWWII wrote:I'd argue with you there that it seems redundant. While meltas are the common weapon right now, they also fill a niche roll. They're very close range, and their tactics involve getting up close and personal to kill things with them. For me, that means I have to deal with running a Guardsmen squad close to Termies so I can shoot them with my meltas? Why in Terra's Holy Name would I do that? I want to be able to take advantage of the melta special rule to kill tanks easier. Plasma fills the nice, especially in the IG, of being able to: a) cut through termie armor without being more useful as an AT gun (lascannons and meltas) and b) putting lots of wounds on big MC, something most Guard units can't do very well. To me, I view plasma and melta as two extremely different weapons with extremely different jobs. Melta, close up anti tank. Plasma mid range anti-Termie, Marine, and MC gun. They're different enough that I take both, and I for one am perfectly happy the way things are.

Agree. Prove my point too.