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Just wondering what others think about the "gets hot" rule?

Personally I think you should just miss the shot and not have the additional worry of taking a wound. Surely losing the shot can be the most hurtful thing in most situations?

I also think it makes the battlefield and character loadout a little more boring as players worry about fielding a weapon that could go wrong at the worst possible moment.

What soldier would pick up a weapon that had a 16.6666% chance of doing them damage everytime it was fired. I would like to see the rule changed but it would be good to hear others opinions.

The plasma gun (and cannon) would need to cost a bit more if you removed Gets Hot.

Dear sir,

In the future, please try to properly space out your posts. It makes it very hard to understand just what you are trying to say when it is nothing more then one big blob.

As for gets hot, hand held plasma weapons are pretty destructive and need something to balance out the ability to rapid fire them. Just be glad that the +1 is no longer accumulative anymore.

Take care.

What about a "cool down" house rule.

"Gets hot" only applies if the weapon is fired twice in succession. If you give it a turn to cool down, the risk is taken away and a roll of 1 is a simple miss.

It's still a bit more powerful than normal, but allows you to take a plasma weapon risk-free. Like the older "recharge" rule.

Would also make the weapon a bit more "realistic"; it's designed for the reduced fire rate, but can be overcharged in an emergency.

Melta weaponry is as destructive as Plasma weaponry yet it doesn't carry the same burden although range is reduced but it also costs less.

It's hard to think of a simple change to the rule without complicating in game mechanics. Maybe the most simple thing that could be done is remove rapid on the gun and blast on the cannon. I don't think any cost adjustment would be needed in this scenario & Plasma weaponry would fill a useful range category.

Plasma weaponry occupys a space in strength & AP stat's that no other weaponry does. It then seems a shame that it has such a negative attached. I also believe gets hot restricts more plasma weaponry being fielded. Which is a shame all round.

doctorludo wrote:What about a "cool down" house rule.

"Gets hot" only applies if the weapon is fired twice in succession. If you give it a turn to cool down, the risk is taken away and a roll of 1 is a simple miss.

It's still a bit more powerful than normal, but allows you to take a plasma weapon risk-free. Like the older "recharge" rule.

Would also make the weapon a bit more "realistic"; it's designed for the reduced fire rate, but can be overcharged in an emergency.

A quite inspiring idea.

I know it's a weird comparison but if you look up Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment Army List on Forge World, you will find the Bombard Battery of IG have this rule:

Slow Rate of Fire: The bombard takes along time to reload its huge shells. It may only fire every other turn, so after firing it must miss a turn whilst it reloads. It cannot move and reload at the same time.

There's not really a calibre issue if you compare a siege mortar to a plasma cannon... And in the case of plasma gun, get rid of that "It cannot move and reload at the same time".

The only weapon I really feel needs gets hot to balance it against other choices is the plasma pistol, since it (in most armies) has no real competition for the selection slot.

Plasma Guns and Cannons I think are priced well enough to work about the same without it.

Jack

It's fine as is. Keep in mind meltas are also 12" range and cannot be rapid fired, and MM are 24" range with no blast.

That and not all plasma weapons get hot (Tau & Eldar). The imperium is using a more unstable technology to achieve more power (Str 7 instead of Str 6). Also plasma guns are very ancient and much of the knowledge to create & maintain them was lost which would make them more unreliable.

^ Unless it's a Devil Dog. 24" blast MM.. yeahh He'stan would like to get his hands on that.

How about "Gets Hot" only applying if you rapid fire?

jp400 wrote:Dear sir,

In the future, please try to properly space out your posts. It makes it very hard to understand just what you are trying to say when it is nothing more then one big blob.

As for gets hot, hand held plasma weapons are pretty destructive and need something to balance out the ability to rapid fire them. Just be glad that the +1 is no longer accumulative anymore.

Take care.

I'll have to agree here whole heartedly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have to suggest this.

Leae gets hot! as it is. it's the one rule that makes the most sense to me, as far as shooting drawbacks go.
it's the chance that the weapon will screw up at the worst possible moment.

I'm hoping you've possibly played farcry 2.

verys immilar. there is a chance that the gun will jam, and you'll be stuck without a gun for a while.
sometimes your gun is gonna break. since there are 10 guys in the average squad, it's the chance that you'll be down on the worst possible situation.

just be glad that not more weapons have that rule.

If you want a good home rule, after getting a 1, roll a D6, on a 4+ nothing happens, you just missed.
on a 3-, you loose the model.

it trades a rediculously high 16% chance of wounding the user for a reliable 8% chance of just outright killing the unit.

plasma railgun

Dev, thats kinda pointless...

only find railguns in three places...
pathfinders [which I'd assume wouldn't get it.]
Broadsides, which are, by the way Twin-linked.
And hammerheads.
point? I see non.

plasma raligun that shoots 25 times and has 4+ gets hot
sound familiar?

no losing the shot is not the point. the point is to give such a powerful weapon to a soldier, there are some risks involved. Heck, I'd like to see a similar thing happen to flamer troops when they are killed, a chance to hit the tank and explode.

Well I know I am going against the grain here but I would still like to see the removal of the "get's hot" rule.

Why not tone it down to strength 6 like the Eldar. I would much prefer this option.

It's a shame because I just think it creates less diversity on the battlefield and character design. Try and buy a combi-melta online as opposed to a combi-plasma and it's evident what is more in demand. Why is this?

I do not play competitively but I would be interested to know if anyone fields 4 Plasma Cannons in their Devastator squad.

Ok, well, think of it this way, if flamers or lascannons had a Get Hot! rule, how many do you think you'd see, then?

Plasma weapons are very powerful weapons, there has to be more of a drawback than "+15 points" when building a squad. I have heard of people who have plopped 4 plasma cannons into devastators, and have used them quite effectively to wipeout large numbers of troops. The risk of the thing going off is, in some people's minds, worth the carnage it wreaks on the enemy.

Take the risk or stop whining about a rule that may or may not hurt your models.

but the combi-melta fills an anti-tank niche that the plasma doesn't.

Plasma's used to be popular against MEQ but due to mech-ness people take meltas and then when the tanks are gone frazzle MEQ with them.

If they made a plasma cannon heavy 2 or 3 it would probaby be a lot better.

Phototoxin wrote:but the combi-melta fills an anti-tank niche that the plasma doesn't.

Plasma's used to be popular against MEQ but due to mech-ness people take meltas and then when the tanks are gone frazzle MEQ with them.

If they made a plasma cannon heavy 2 or 3 it would probaby be a lot better.

In a roundabout way this hits my point. Melta weaponry costs less, poses no risk to the user, is effective against armour & MEQ's, is more likely to bypass armour saves & wound the target. What is the incentive to take Plasma weaponry? It's a shame really.

Chimaera wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:but the combi-melta fills an anti-tank niche that the plasma doesn't.

Plasma's used to be popular against MEQ but due to mech-ness people take meltas and then when the tanks are gone frazzle MEQ with them.

If they made a plasma cannon heavy 2 or 3 it would probaby be a lot better.

In a roundabout way this hits my point. Melta weaponry costs less, poses no risk to the user, is effective against armour & MEQ's, is more likely to bypass armour saves & wound the target. What is the incentive to take Plasma weaponry? It's a shame really.

qft. GamesWorkshop has really made Plasma useless.

I would fix it by making it like this I guess.

Plasma Pistol Str 7 Ap 2 Assault 2 12"
Plasma Rifle Str 7 Ap 2 Assault 2 24"
Plasma Cannon Str 7 Ap1 Heavy 2 Small Blast 36" OR Heavy 1 Large Blast 36"

Well, what about just nerfing melta guns? Add some fluff about them requiring an extended shot to melt through armor, and infantry are too small a target to get a reliable extended shot.

Make the rules so that melta gets half str and ap 4 when shooting at non-vehicles.

I'd vote for this just to cut back a bit on the current melta-spam.

Grakmar wrote:Well, what about just nerfing melta guns? Add some fluff about them requiring an extended shot to melt through armor, and infantry are too small a target to get a reliable extended shot.

Make the rules so that melta gets half str and ap 4 when shooting at non-vehicles.

I'd vote for this just to cut back a bit on the current melta-spam.

to
Ummm, I really don't like this rule. A melta is an antitank weapon, and getting an extended shot on a moving tank? Can you imagine trying to keep your fire on one spot on an Eldar skimmer going full speed? Somehow this doesn't make that much sense to me.

You can assault after firing melta guns, you cant assault if you fire a plasmagun.

This is HUGE when it comes to chaos marine armies who like to fire off some rounds AND assault.

Yes you only get half as many shots if you use melta guns, and you have less range. BUT..


Melta guns can Insta-gib T4 models. Plasma can't. (quite hilarious when you fry a 10W Doom of malantai with 1 melta gun shot)

Melta guns wound Nid beasties on 2. Plasmas on 3.

Melta guns are exelent anti-tank, Plasma is not.

Plasma costs more.... wait what?

Plasma (in double tap range) also gives you the chance to pen termie armor, reducing them to a 5++ save. Yes, a melta can do this too but: a) a melta has only one shot b) there are more important things to shoot melta's at than random termies.

I agree plasma is a bit expensive, but if you made it cheaper, you'd probably see lots of plasma and melta spam.

bucketwalrus wrote:You can assault after firing melta guns, you cant assault if you fire a plasmagun.

This is HUGE when it comes to chaos marine armies who like to fire off some rounds AND assault.

Yes you only get half as many shots if you use melta guns, and you have less range. BUT..

but all Space Marines have bolt pistols, and those you can fire before declaring an assault. But remember, too, if pre-assault shots are too successful, your opponent may end up peeling troops off the front and not the back, maybe even denying you the assault. And anyway, if your tactical marines are getting into critical assaults, your plan may have already failed. There are Marine troops better equipped for such a job, offensively and defensively, like terminators or assault marines...

SoloFalcon1138 wrote: There are Marine troops better equipped for such a job, offensively and defensively, like terminators or assault marines...

Semantics, Devastator. What SoloFalcon said was quite clear....he didn't mean that terminator's are troops choices, he meant that Termies are still Marine soldiers. And his point still stands....your Tacticals are a well rounded choice, but there are guys who will do better in assault like, as he said: Terminators or better yet, Assault Termies.

Assault Marines or Vanguard vets would also do quite well in place of a tactical squad.

Gets Hot is less of a deterrent to me than Rapid Fire and the high cost.

If I go the old SM codex -

5 pts - template assault
10 pts - 12" S8 tank-killer assault
15 pts - 24" S7 get's hot rapid fire.

Similar with the heavy plasma and plasma pistol. In the 5th ed environment, given the options of flamer, melta or plasma, the choice is really flamer or melta. No reduce the cost to 10 and I might come up with a reason to field plasma again.

As a SM variant or CSM player, get's hot should only jump up and bite me 1 out of every 18 times I fire so I have no problem with that aspect. Now if I am a guardsman and knowing I die 1 out of 8 times maybe but it sucks to be IG.

Imperial plasma is stronger but unstable while the technologically refinded races have toned down their plasma to S6 and have no problem with overheating.
Fair trade-off and sets the races apart.

Give me Assault 2 18" or 24" for 15 or as is for 10 and I might find a place for a great general purpose weapon but if I want anti-infantry I will always take a flamer and if I want anti-tank the melta is the only choice.

I do agree. Why would anyone who isn't a depressed samasochist pick up a weapon that will explode and painfully burn him to death after 6 shots?

I understand plasma clouds flying up and potentually hitting the user, but still.

Suicidal Cheez wrote:I do agree. Why would anyone who isn't a depressed samasochist pick up a weapon that will explode and painfully burn him to death after 6 shots?

I understand plasma clouds flying up and potentually hitting the user, but still.

I agree with the insanity of using a (non-Eldar) plasma weapon. But, look at old firearms (around 15th century? any history buffs got a better timeline?). They would blow up in the user's hands rather frequently, but troops still used them in battle.