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Luckily I dont have any models for hydras so I cant get on the stuff. Though one could run 6 hydras and 3 griffons and still have 800 points left for a 1500 list lol

6 hydras
3 griffs
3 valkries
3 multimelta vets
CCS squad.

Griffin hydra valk crack lol

Ailaros wrote:

freddieyu1 wrote:That's funny since my bassie and manticore do quite well..not ALL the time mind you, but most of the time they are OK, and there are times they were downright fantastic.

The problem is that human brains tend to suffer from selective bias. You only remember the games where that one time, that one shot, was make or break, and it pulled through in the clinch, and then simply ignore or forget everything else. This leaves you with the false impression that they're fantastic, because when you try and remember how they've done for you, you only remember the times they were fantastic.

over the next several games, take a careful, detailed look at what your artillery is really doing (and compare it to what you should statistically expect to help filter out luck), and in what circumstances they're doing it. In my case, I write battle reports, so I have documented proof of what my artillery has done every turn of every game.

When you're forced to confront what artillery does in it's entirety, instead of just selecting when it was awesome, you start to get a feel for why guard artillery is so cheap.

hehehe, you are correct when it comes to selective memory there, but hey that's what we live for in these games!!! I also do write batreps (both here and on Warseer), and have played quite a number of 5th ed games too, and on the average artillery do me better than not....and not only in 5th ed, but even in the old days from 3rd ed (bassie + griffon) to 4th ed (bassie only)...

I do not dwell in detailed stats stuff at all, and will just take it from you math and accounting folks, since for me the only stat that really matters is if you win or not..and that is the best detail to look at ..as I have written before, it is difficult to fully quantify what a particular unit in the IG army really is worth, as realistically speaking each type of unit WILL have their shining or DOH GAKK!! moments in 1 game or the other.... the key point for me is that the artillery have the roles of 1) early in the game firing indirectly as much as possible in order to bypass cover saves and neutralize key/tough enemy units (neutralize also means forcing pinning checks, don't forget pin checks are taken for EVERY successful barrage shot which causes a wound, unlike panic checks which are taken only once at the end of the phase) 2) switching to direct fire as necessary as (or IF) the enemy gets within minimum range, and also to support my mech components who are theoretically at that time engaged with the enemy vanguard elements, and if not 3) continue to fire indirect versus targets on the other side of the table as necessary, supporting the flank where the bulk of my outflanking units come out....for these I love the bassie and the manticore, as these can fire on the move, but I do use the griffon too and will soon try out my converted and yet unpainted Collossus (which can also pass as a Medusa actually)....

I find these roles quite important in helping my army win, and thus artillery pay an important part of my lists, especially since we tend to play terrain heavy here (especially for friendly games, as the terrain pieces are not as stretched out as compared to tourney events where you have a lot of tables). Only the artillery pieces can fulfill this role, so I use them (meaning at least 1 tank which can fire indirect, as I do swap in a russ as well as hydras in and out of the HS slots) practically always.

alarmingrick wrote:
As he stated(darkknightzach), we were talking about Griffons. Griffons have no "Direct Fire" ability. therefore, suffer from min. range.

edit
pg.# 53 of the IG codex.

Oh, I stand corrected--and I learned something today. Only ever having seen a griffon on a table one time, I think it was back in 2000 or 2001, I didn't know that about them.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:
As he stated(darkknightzach), we were talking about Griffons. Griffons have no "Direct Fire" ability. therefore, suffer from min. range.

edit
pg.# 53 of the IG codex.

Oh, I stand corrected--and I learned something today. Only ever having seen a griffon on a table one time, I think it was back in 2000 or 2001, I didn't know that about them.

Thankfully the griffon's minimum range is only 12", so in reality they should be able to fire at most targets most of the time...

IMHO griffs are usually the last artillery piece considered for tournaments, their only advantage being accuracy with only one shot and large blast. Rather take hydras.
For one, havent battled against it, you may try it by proxy to see if it works for you.

mindfield wrote:IMHO griffs are usually the last artillery piece considered for tournaments, their only advantage being accuracy with only one shot and large blast. Rather take hydras.
For one, havent battled against it, you may try it by proxy to see if it works for you.

not necessarily Augie, I've used the griffon competitively a lot, even in 3rd ed when they did not have the accurate bombardment, and as recent as the last Gladiator cup, and it did just fine. It's consistency in hitting most of the time plus it's cheap cost is what makes it viable.

@freddie: Indeed, too bad it's a FW model, can't easily buy it or justify buying for testing, heheh. I have yet to face your IG though, too bad it would have been a good battle

mindfield wrote:@freddie: Indeed, too bad it's a FW model, can't easily buy it or justify buying for testing, heheh. I have yet to face your IG though, too bad it would have been a good battle

IG vs IG: first to alpha strike = win, unless he is cursed by the dice gods...

I think Manticores and Griffon Mortars are where it's at with IG artillery. Massive amounts of large templates are a good thing, especially with the number of MEQ armies around.

freddieyu1 wrote:IG vs IG: first to alpha strike = win, unless he is cursed by the dice gods...

...or one of them plays air-cav or an infantry horde, or uses outflankers or deepstrikers extensively.

Of course, that's definitely true of a mech+artillery or armored+artillery lists duke it out. Assuming that the other player doesn't leave everything in reserve and then come out and pop smoke...

Good Thread! Subscribed.

01.Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.