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Before anything else, let me praise this:

CaptainLoken wrote:I tried to explain to the player that Adeptus Astartes are not "Marines", or like any other modern combat force. They are not super jocks in space. They are not trash talking, strut walking, body count collecting, gangsta's from hell.

They are warrior monks. They are genetically modified, Chapter Cult indoctrinated, mentally fortified super warriors. Even the Space Wolves, who are about as far away from the "classic" Space Marine, do not use monikers. Heck, you would probably get yourself killed if you TRIED to call a Space Wolf by a nickname.

BEST. EXPLANATION. EVER.

I respect how you're standing by your beliefs and helping your friends' roleplay in-character. The worst thing that could happen to a Deathwatch game is for it to devolve into the Doom film (which has Karl Urban i.e. Eomer nicknamed "Reaper" with a team of super jocks in space), which is a very easy line to cross.

To be fair, I also think there ARE perfectly valid reasons to use handles that won't conflict with the fluff & feel of the 40,000 era:

1.) Astartes from different Chapters have bonded in Deathwatch - This is building off AlaneDomain's point about how a callsign is actually a character's real name and an homage to the other DW...Deathwing. You may recall the short origin story. Dark Angels recruit from many worlds, each with different cultures. When they are initiated, they take on an Imperial Gothic Chapter-given name. However, when its 1st Company of Terminators decided to go on a personal mission on their original homeworld, they went back to using their old names, like Weasel Fierce, Lame Bear, and Two Heads Talking (they came from a Native American-esque world). In the context of Deathwatch, I can see two Astartes from different Chapters becoming such buddies that they've gone beyond being Battle Brothers to becoming total Bros. From a roleplay perspective, I think learning other Deathwatch members' personal names is about as close as they can get. I read the points about how nicknames demonstrated a lack of discipline that lead to the Heresy, but please keep in mind that Deathwing's actions were honored, which is why their Terminator suits are painted white to this day.

2.) A callsign is a military necessity - Like Gwar said. But who could intercept the radio signal of an Inquisitor? Why, his traditional enemy of course...another Inquisitor. A rival, resourceful Radical could predict the Deathwatch's Inquisitor's plans by knowing which Chapter's Marines he assembled in his Deathwatch. The Astartes's Chapter-given names would obviously be a tell-tale sign of that (Dark Angels tend to have Biblical names, Ultramarines Latin ones, Space Wolves wolfy ones.) Thus, he would establish handles to disguise this from an in-character perspective.

3.) The clash of Chapter cultures is jeopardising the mission, thus they adopt codenames to form a common Deathwatch identity - Maybe the Dark Angel and the Space Wolf are letting their Chapter rivalries get in the way of the objectives. An Inquisitor or Brother Marine with a high sense of fellowship may intervene, "Brothers, I respect your traditions from the time of those great Primarchs, the Lion and the Wolf, but we together are the Deathwatch now. Remember now that the Emperor wants us to serve him as ONE squad, that you are His Sword, and you His Axe. And thus shall I call you until this mission He has given us is done." The substitution of their Chapter-given names with new Deathwatch handles is a reminder for them to leave their cultural baggage behind. Moreover, instead of this use of handles weakening the roleplay, I feel this is actually a really good way to demonstrate Squad Mode in-character.

4.) The mission requires an Astartes to put his Deathwatch mission over before his personal/Chapter beliefs - I remember how Space Wolves are more humanitarian than other Chapters, which is demonstrated by their higher Fellowship in game mechanics. It was a minor footnote from 1 White Dwarf issue about the 1st War of Armageddon. After the victory of the hive world against Chaos, the Inquisition sterilised its population to prevent that even from entering into history, and the Great Wolf at the time publically voiced his disgust, a politically unsound move. I can imagine a Space Wolf having to do something for the Deathwatch that he knows his Chapter, his Great Wolf, and even Russ himself would be against...but the mission comes 1st. As a gesture, he discards his Chapter name and takes on a handle, which brings shame unto himself but he prevents it from tainting his Chapter's name. Again, this is great roleplay, demonstrating a character's inner conflict.

What I hope to show is that not only are callsigns acceptable, but they can actually enhance roleplay. And all that's on top of the hardest lesson I personally learned as an RPG Gamemaster, which was to let the players roleplay their characters in their way, thus avoid becoming "That Guy."

I really hope you consider my humble thoughts on this matter as I really do admire how you adhere to the source materials, as one veteran RPer to another. As such, I also want to show how you can embrace the idea of handles after these arguments without "losing face" in front of this Havoc guy.

Imagine this scenario, which combines the above - at a critical moment that tests the party's ability to work as a team, there's a tell-tale sign that their radio signal has been hacked into (like there's a sudden high-pitched bleep that the Inquisitor knows is his rival's handiwork). Thinking fast, he or an Astartes says something to throw the enemy off, like "rain down havoc...from the back!" To whoever's intercepting the signal, this sounds like an order for the Deathwatch to retreat by providing covering fire. However, to the players, it's a direction from Havoc to perhaps flank the enemy and attack their rear flank. It's a way to show how well the party is working as a proper Deathwatch squad, that they understand each other's hidden signals, and a great RP opportunity. By allowing handles at this point, you're not giving in...you're just being giving and that's cool.

I appreciate the post.

It wasn't so much the "nickname", but the attitude that was combined with it.

I tried to explain things to the player in a different way as well, thinking that it might be easier for the player to understand.

Jedi do not hang out in bars or brothels. They do not go by "Slayer" or "Sith Killer". They are held to a higher standard, and their mental and social ideals prevent them from doing such "un-Jedi-like" behavior. There is the Code...

Space Marines are no different. In fact, they may be even MORE focused and zealous.

Now, I am the first person to let players do what they want in order to have fun in a game. Want to be a Vampire in a Fantasy Game? YOU BET!!! Want to be a Tau hunter in a Rogue Trader game? NO PROBLEM!!!

But, when you start to take a core element of a campaign setting, and twist it because you like to play loud, smart mouthed, authority ignoring, silly characters...THEN I have a propblem with it.

The palyers wouldn't let Obi "Hoe Smackin" Kenobi be in a Star Wars game....why should Marcus "Da Pimp" Vorenus be allowed in Deathwatch?

2.) A callsign is a military necessity

Indeed, but my main point was that a Callsign is NOT the same as a Nick Name.

4.) The mission requires an Astartes to put his Deathwatch mission over before his personal/Chapter beliefs

That is also true, but you need to remember two things about the Space Wolves.

One is that being "selected for the Honour" of mucking about with the Deathwatch isn't always done as a good thing. To Quote one of the Ragnar Books regarding the selection of a Bodyguard for their Navigator Allies, "And just exactly how are these marvelous heroes selected?" "Who said they were heroes?"

That being said, you are spot on with the 1st war of Armageddon. The Puppies were not too fond of the Inquisition and High lords anyway (SW are older than them, ergo they don't like them) and this was a major sore point. Logan was a young Wolf Lord at the time, and when threatened with extermination for his heretical views, he basically told them "Come get some."

And look how that worked out for the Sisters.

Maybe its just be but I think that the Space Wolves would be more likely to have nick names and not just titles, atleast amongst their pack brothers.

How do we know that Stormcaller isnt a nick name that stuck and Njal decided to adopt. Also Ulrik's 'title' the Slayer sounds like a nickname as well as Grandfather Lupus which doesn't seem much like an official title.

BrotherStynier wrote:Maybe its just be but I think that the Space Wolves would be more likely to have nick names and not just titles, atleast amongst their pack brothers.

How do we know that Stormcaller isnt a nick name that stuck and Njal decided to adopt. Also Ulrik's 'title' the Slayer wasn't a nickname as well as Grandfather Lupus which doesn't seem much like an official title.

They aren't nicknames, they are more titles or honorifics.

And I honestly think if anyone tried to give Njal a nickname they would find themselves at the bottom of the Fenrisian Oceans.

Now, that being said, Blood Claws, being impetuous children, would be more likely to give each other joking nicknames.

Ragnar Blackmane, if the Space Wolf books are to be believed, was born Ragnar Thunderfist, but after returning to the Fang after the Trial of Morkai he had slain a Blackmane wolf, one of the more fearsome Fenrisian Wolves and considered a great portent, so he was nicknamed "Blackmane" by his pack brothers, mostly as a derogatory term though, but it must have stuck!

Wouldn't mean they don't stick, like you've said Blackmane was a nickname from his pack, so its likely others received one as well, that may have stuck. Most likely these would only be used by those in the pack, and who have earned the respect of the one with the nickname and is allowed to call him by it. Where as others would be scorned for it.

Space Marines are still humans. Their training shouldn't be a straitjacket on good roleplay- any group of humans working/living closely together for an extended period of time will develop informal social ties, among these, nicknames.

Most of the depictions of Marines in the "modern" era are very focused on combat situations, where a marine's training comes to the fore, whereas the Horus Heresy books have combat, yes, but a LOT more non-combat situations. I think that's why we see more of the informalities in the HH books.

@OP
Should you let him come into the setting with a nick? Probably not- a SM seconded to the Deathwatch would most likely meet and address his new Battle Brothers in the solemnest manner possible. Over time, nicknames could very well become part of the interaction between these (genetically altered super)humans.