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Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

The thing is, one of the players in our group wants his Astartes, of the Storm Wardens Chapter, to be known by a "nickname". He want's to be known as "Havoc" within the Kill-team.

Now, I have read the story Headhunted, and I know that the Astartes in that story used "code names". But, I have never known an instance, in 18 years, where a Space Marine was called by a handle, such as "Reaper" or "Havoc" or "Supa Killa"...

I tried to explain to the player that Adeptus Astartes are not "Marines", or like any other modern combat force. They are not super jocks in space. They are not trash talking, strut walking, body count collecting, gangsta's from hell.

They are warrior monks. They are genetically modified, Chapter Cult indoctrinated, mentally fortified super warriors. Even the Space Wolves, who are about as far away from the "classic" Space Marine, do not use monikers. Heck, you would probably get yourself killed if you TRIED to call a Space Wolf by a nickname.

Now, this doesn't mean that Space Marines are inhuman. They still tease each other. They still taunt each other. But, they do so within a framework of honor and respectability.

Despite my intentions, this has become an issue within the group, and I have been called a "purist".

So, I was just wondering what the Dakka community thought about calling Adeptus Astartes by handles or monikers. Is it too "First Edition", or am I being too "Pure" with the source material?

I think you're right to stand your ground on this. It suits for IG to go by nicknames and call signs but not SMs. As you've said yourself, they're closer to warrior monks than say the USMC or the SAS (both of which are quite openly known to use callsigns and nicknames within their ranks).

You also need to take into account that you'll be playing as part of a Kill-Team. If a Space Wolf called a Dark Angel by a nickname I don't think that would sit particularly well, I know there is animosity between those chapters anyway but I don't think that it would matter too much if the same was done between say, an Ultramarine (heaven forbid they'd do something along those lines anyway) and a Salamander. There's too much honour involved. A member of a Kill-Team is a representative of their chapter, and as such would expect to be treated with due respect.

You might see it happen with Space Marine Scouts or Blood Claws but I'd think Chaplains/Wolf Priests/whatever equivalent would seek to put an end to it fairly sharpish.

If you're trying to be accurate to the general mood and presentation of Marines in this campaign, then nicknames and callsigns are most likely not appropriate. Playing Deathwatch is basically like playing an entire party full of Paladins in a fantasy RPG; you're all honorable, faithful knights, with gigantic sticks up your asses.

Now, it's entirely possible to play a team of Marines where at least some of you realize that you're unstoppable juggernauts of destruction and actually have a little fun being gung-ho about it, but this would be up to the GM and what style of game he wants to run. Remember, also, that some chapters view too much pride in victory and/or frivolity as potentially Chaotic, which is why Marine life is so disciplined and regimented.

Finally, if the guy REALLY wants to be called Brother Havoc, there's no saying that couldn't be his actual name. Maybe his Chapter Master made him use a codename to retain some kind of secrecy, or his company Captain gives members honorary names that happen to be nouns, or maybe he just comes from a planet where "H'vokk" is as normal a moniker as "Steve" or "Marneus." There are ways around this issue.

Based off of the Deathwatch roleplay? No, they don't. They use extremely proper Low Gothic (English), no contractions, no nicknames, etc.

Space Marines are most assuredly not USMC.

Yeah, I would very much assume that they don't use callsigns. If you call your fellow anything shy of "Sergeant Battle Brother Aesertius" or "Holy Librarian Battle Brother Pinchoffius" you get arco flagelled for your lack of piety and discipline.

They use first names only IIRC.

IE, Asertius or Pinchoffius in your (hilarious) examples.

Possibly rank (Captain, Brother, Librarian, Apothecary, etc) before that if they're being respectful.

CaptainLoken wrote:Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

It sounds to me like you made the issue here, if all he wanted to do was call a marine by a nickname.

+ FYI 'Little Horus,' 'The Twisted,' 'Straight-Arrow Garro,' 'the Half-Heard' are all nicknames from Black Library books given to Space Marines.

Yeah, Space Marines take themselves very seriously so I've never seen nicknames. It's actually pretty rare to even hear them not use the comrades full title like "Brother Sergeant Priad" or whatever. That being said there's no reason why some chapter isn't more laid back. However if you want an army with guys named "Supa Killa" then I recommend Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

whatwhat wrote:

CaptainLoken wrote:Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

It sounds to me like you made the issue here, if all he wanted to do was call a marine by a nickname.

+ FYI 'Little Horus,' 'The Twisted,' 'Straight-Arrow Garro,' 'the Half-Heard' are all nicknames from Black Library books given to Space Marines.

I guess those are good examples. They were a little more lax back then: but look what happened! Giant Galactic civil war!

All those nicknames were in the Horus Heresy novels setting. Not the current post-Codex Astartes era.

And then, many of the Space Marines were Terrans as well, with different cultural upbringing that may have lent itself to the lax cameraderie needed for nicknames to develop.

I don't recollect any nicknames used for any SM in the "current" timeline.

whatwhat wrote:

CaptainLoken wrote:Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

It sounds to me like you made the issue here, if all he wanted to do was call a marine by a nickname.

+ FYI 'Little Horus,' 'The Twisted,' 'Straight-Arrow Garro,' 'the Half-Heard' are all nicknames from Black Library books given to Space Marines.

Those are all names given to marines, never taken by themselves. Horus Aximund never called himself 'Little Horus' and the others sound like insults from a time when chaos was making its presence felt amongst the legions. Was Horus Aximund called 'Little Horus' to his face, I don't remember, I think he was called by his proper name but was referred to as Little Horus when being talking about by others.

It doesn't really suit the nature of SM to be given callsigns, but at the same time it is likely that a squad will have worked together for decades or centuries, and so will be familiar with one another's tempers and tolerance for nicknames and the like. If he can justify it in such a manner, then go for it.

cadbren wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

CaptainLoken wrote:Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

It sounds to me like you made the issue here, if all he wanted to do was call a marine by a nickname.

+ FYI 'Little Horus,' 'The Twisted,' 'Straight-Arrow Garro,' 'the Half-Heard' are all nicknames from Black Library books given to Space Marines.

Those are all names given to marines, never taken by themselves. Horus Aximund never called himself 'Little Horus' and the others sound like insults from a time when chaos was making its presence felt amongst the legions. Was Horus Aximund called 'Little Horus' to his face, I don't remember, I think he was called by his proper name but was referred to as Little Horus when being talking about by others.

You're right about about straight-arrow and Half-Heard. That was from some of the lower quality Astartes that they had back in the 30,000s. I think little Horus was a bit of a term of endearment IIRC.

Anyways, Space Wolves are about as informal as marines get. If they don't got nicknames then it probably doesn't happen.

Being "Right" is rarely worth the tension it brings to a table. This is seriously small potatoes, and not worth being "That Guy" over.

Let him have his nickname, and either chock it up to his particular marine having grown somewhat eccentric over the years of combat or informality simply being a unique trait of his chapter after all, there isn't a terribly huge amount of fluff behind them. It'd certainly be a less extreme deviance than some other chapters...

Heck, maybe even have your character (IC) be at odds by this particular trait of his. However this isn't the sort of thing to be a wet blanket over OOC.

Play Rouge Trader.

Or remember its a game, and as GM your job it to make sure your players are having fun. If that means calling a guy skippy let them. Plus if the player being called skippy don't like it you got a good RP chance.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

cadbren wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

CaptainLoken wrote:Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

It sounds to me like you made the issue here, if all he wanted to do was call a marine by a nickname.

+ FYI 'Little Horus,' 'The Twisted,' 'Straight-Arrow Garro,' 'the Half-Heard' are all nicknames from Black Library books given to Space Marines.

Those are all names given to marines, never taken by themselves. Horus Aximund never called himself 'Little Horus' and the others sound like insults from a time when chaos was making its presence felt amongst the legions. Was Horus Aximund called 'Little Horus' to his face, I don't remember, I think he was called by his proper name but was referred to as Little Horus when being talking about by others.

You're right about about straight-arrow and Half-Heard. That was from some of the lower quality Astartes that they had back in the 30,000s. I think little Horus was a bit of a term of endearment IIRC.

Anyways, Space Wolves are about as informal as marines get. If they don't got nicknames then it probably doesn't happen.

From the Space Wolf Codex:

Logan Grimnar: The Great Wolf, Old Wolf, Fangfather
Canis Wolfborn: Growlthroat, Fangrider
Arjac Rockfist: The Man-Mountain, Anvil of Fenris

Between that and Headhunted, I don't think it's impossible that in some chapters nicknames can be used. However as it was made clear in Headhunted, there's no reason the other Marines would have to respect it either.

nobody wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

cadbren wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

CaptainLoken wrote:Good day Dakka,

My game group is going to start Deathwatch soon, and I have made an issue out of "nothing". You see, I have been playing 40K since 1992, and have numerous Black Library books, been through all of the editions, yadda yadda...

It sounds to me like you made the issue here, if all he wanted to do was call a marine by a nickname.

+ FYI 'Little Horus,' 'The Twisted,' 'Straight-Arrow Garro,' 'the Half-Heard' are all nicknames from Black Library books given to Space Marines.

Those are all names given to marines, never taken by themselves. Horus Aximund never called himself 'Little Horus' and the others sound like insults from a time when chaos was making its presence felt amongst the legions. Was Horus Aximund called 'Little Horus' to his face, I don't remember, I think he was called by his proper name but was referred to as Little Horus when being talking about by others.

You're right about about straight-arrow and Half-Heard. That was from some of the lower quality Astartes that they had back in the 30,000s. I think little Horus was a bit of a term of endearment IIRC.

Anyways, Space Wolves are about as informal as marines get. If they don't got nicknames then it probably doesn't happen.

From the Space Wolf Codex:

Logan Grimnar: The Great Wolf, Old Wolf, Fangfather
Canis Wolfborn: Growlthroat, Fangrider
Arjac Rockfist: The Man-Mountain, Anvil of Fenris

Between that and Headhunted, I don't think it's impossible that in some chapters nicknames can be used. However as it was made clear in Headhunted, there's no reason the other Marines would have to respect it either.

Those are Titles tho not nicknames.

Well my chapter is indiviualized O.o in that they keep a personallity and they nickname each other due to this.
And in the prehersey everyone nicknamed each other. Space Wolves, Blood Ravens and such, the ones with actual personalities are the ones that we hear about most.
But I think they should, Space marines have a human mind, (Except ultramarines, and the imperial fists)

too bad blood ravens aren't a founding chapter

lukesdabest wrote:too bad blood ravens aren't a founding chapter

Thank god they aren't

Actually, one of my fellow players brought up the "Little Horus" titles and such. I tried to point out that the Great Crusade / Horus Heresy was almost 10,000 years before the current time. It was a completely different era. It was a time of hope. It was a time of great ideas. It was a time of unlimited human achievement.

Now, after almost 10,000 years of betrayal, loss, defeat, failure, and The Ruinous Powers, the Adeptus Astartes are MUCH more pius.

Also, there is a difference in "titles" or "honorifics", such as the Space Wolf names and such, and "monikers" or "nicknames".

One is a title earned with honor and sacrifice. The other is not.

Anyway, I just read a post from another one of my fellow group members, who is playing a Space Wolf. He was saying that it was a good thing that there are no female Astartes (please...do not turn this into a "Female Astartes" debate/campaign thread), because his character would spend his off time trying to "tap it"...

Ugh....it's going to be one of those games...isn't it.........


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thank the EMPEROR the guy was just joking. I had to check, because I was not going to play in a game like that...

I was getting ready to pull out the Bolter and Power Sword, and have a little "discussion" about some things...

Asherian Command wrote:

lukesdabest wrote:too bad blood ravens aren't a founding chapter

Thank god they aren't

Yeah, they're too cool to be a first founding chapter.

So the best you could do to counter the nailed on examples I gave. Explicitly described as nicknames in BL fiction is say that in 10,000 years they decided not to have nicknames any more?

Melissia wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

lukesdabest wrote:too bad blood ravens aren't a founding chapter

Thank god they aren't

Yeah, they're too cool to be a first founding chapter.

First Founding Chapter?

What is this Heresy? Only Heretics think there were 1st founding Chapters!

-Sends the Space Wolf Legion to cleanse the heresy-

Gwar: I do believe you completely and utterly missed what I said ^.^


whatwhat: the Deathwatch roleplay system supports that conclusion, and that is the system they are currently using.

They do, at least they used to, back in the days of the Great Crusade. What's funny is that your username is an example of one of those old heroes: Captain Garviel Loken, Imperial Loyalist of the Luna Wolves Legion. From Ben Counter's Galaxy in Flames, page 156, Loken is called "Garvi" by Sergeant Nero Vipus. Prime example right there

Melissia wrote:whatwhat: the Deathwatch roleplay system supports that conclusion, and that is the system they are currently using.

How? Where in Deathwatch does it say marines do not use nicknames anymore?

Now within a regular setting I dont think they would use callsigns, but perhaps in a deathwatch setting I could see shorter versons of their names being used, which in turn could be called a nickname, maybe even sound a like names.

Based on chapters, I think Mentor Legion would be the closest chapter to use callsigns or nicknames as they send cadres out to other imperial units sort of like deathwatch and maybe to hide their true names.

Again its just a game and its between you and your friends, so I dont think it matters if brother bob wants to be called 'dragon' and brother tim wants to be called 'night hawk'

There is a major difference between a "Callsign" and a "Nickname".

A Callsign is a military necessity.

For example, 5 DW Marines are sneaking up on some Jean-Stealing Cult of Denim Doom™, they don't know if they have radio intercepting equipment, so even sending an encrypted burst is risky ("Hey Bawb, we just intercepted this scrambled doodad." "OH SHEEEEEEEEET TO BATTLESTATIONS!"), so they could send something disguised as regular radio chatter.

A Nickname is just silly.

Or they could just turn off their radios and go into radio silence......

In "Promethius Requiem" from Fear the Alien, Hrydor repeatedly calls Tsu'gan "Little-Wyrm". This leads me to believe that Space Marines may use nicknames, but Tsu'gan's angry reaction to this behavior makes me think that it is not widely accepted.