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Just to make sure I'm totally clear on what everyone has said:

If I have a model with the following in his inventory: A pistol, a ccw, 2 special ccws, a special ccw that doesn't work with others except in pairs, and a 2 handed ccw.

I am allowed to perform an attack with any of the following attacks:

special ccw+pistol/ccw (counting as the special weapon with a bonus attack)
special ccw that doesn't work with others + nothing
2 handed ccw + nothing

I cannot do any of the following:

pistol+ccw
special ccw that doesn't work with others + anything else
2 handed ccw + anything else

I misread what you were positing.

Carry on!

kirsanth wrote:Page 42. . . ?

Maybe I'm missing something there, but there is nothing that states that you must use all special CCW equipped. There is a blurb in the assault section that says you must use all attacks and use special attacks if you have, but it doesn't state you have to wield all special weapons you have equipped.

I still dont see where the rules explicitly forbids the two CCW combination if you can actually do it while having a SCCW. The list at the end of the page even says "Possible Combinations". Give me the exact line where it says you cannot use two normal CCWs if you have a Special one.

Grakmar wrote:Just to make sure I'm totally clear on what everyone has said:

If I have a model with the following in his inventory: A pistol, a ccw, 2 special ccws, a special ccw that doesn't work with others except in pairs, and a 2 handed ccw.

I am allowed to perform an attack with any of the following attacks:

special ccw+pistol/ccw (counting as the special weapon with a bonus attack)
special ccw that doesn't work with others + nothing
2 handed ccw + nothing

I cannot do any of the following:

pistol+ccw
special ccw that doesn't work with others + anything else
2 handed ccw + anything else

This is the most common sense way to play it, but there is no "this is how" RAW.

If you have a normal and a special, you are required to use the special.

If you have multiples things can get vague but the previous statement could still apply--little else even comes close to addressing it.

Editing to add:
If you read the rules under the headings it makes sense regardless of the numbers involved.
The fact that the heading "restricts" things to a pair of weapons makes more of a problem than the lines below them do.

I'm guessing the Chapter Champion is one of the first (or possibly the only model right now) that has the option of two CCWs and a Special CCW that cant be used in tandem with a normal CCW.

Also, the rules does say those listed are only "possible combinations" not what you must choose. The parameters given is that you are not allwoed to use more than 2 single-handed weapons or mroe than 1 two-handed weapon.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:It never said you could not use the CCW by itself. The writers never even touched upon what would happen if you had more than 3 weapons, other than you could only use a maximum of 2 weapons (and both of which had to be one-handed) in a given turn.

It does say explicitly that if you have a special weapon you must us it, and if you have multiple you must use one, read p42. I'll quote it when I get back to where I have a book later, but I really shouldn't need to since it's very clearly written. This is about the 5th edition rules, not about applying concepts from old editions to current rules.

They just said that 2 handed weapons dont get the +1 for having another CCW.

2-handed weapons is something from 3rd and/or 4th edition, there is no concept of 'handedness' on weapons in 5th edition standard rules. Quote the passage talking about rules for 2-handed weapons if you think there is one, and it has to be a rules passage, not a fluff passage. It's pretty obvious that 'handedness' is not the relevant rule here, since a power fists and lightning claw were a one-handed weapons back when there were rules about handedness, but don't get the +1 for having another CCW in the standard rules.

Also, the rules does say those listed are only "possible combinations" not what you must choose. The parameters given is that you are not allwoed to use more than 2 single-handed weapons or mroe than 1 two-handed weapon.

Again, there is NOTHING about 2-handed or single-handed weapons in the 5th edition rules.

Correct you ARE required to use at least 1 special CCW if you have at least one. For the 4 weapon captain you can not use the Combat blade and pistol. PG 35 First Paragraph after the bullet points "...with their full number of attacks and use any special close combat attack if they have."

Since it states "special close combat attack" not "special close combat weapons" then by using at least one you are fulfilling this requirement. Thus Grakmar's earlier breakdown.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BearersOfSalvation wrote:It does say explicitly that if you have a special weapon you must us it, and if you have multiple you must use one, read p42. I'll quote it when I get back to where I have a book later, but I really shouldn't need to since it's very clearly written. This is about the 5th edition rules, not about applying concepts from old editions to current rules.

Wait till you have your book to post when fine details are brought up. There is nothing on that page that states that MUST use a special weapon when you have 2 SCCW and 2CCW to choose from. That is actually a blurb on an earlier page.

From the rulebook, Page 42 Under "Fighting with Two Single Handed Weapons":

"Of course, if a model is using a Two-Handed Close Combat Weapon (such as a rifle's butt or a two-handed battle axe), it may not use it with another weapon."

From the Space Marine Codex Weapons Section, Page 99 under Relic Blade (not quoting the entire Weapon description here):

"Due to it's size and weight, a Model wielding a Relic Blade cannot get an extra attack for having an additional Close Combat Weapon"

Edit: Thanks Blue Dagger. I'll concede on that matter then. However it still makes the option of the Chapter Champion being allowed to take two normal CCWs when he already has one and a Special CCW really.....weird.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:Again, there is NOTHING about 2-handed or single-handed weapons in the 5th edition rules.

Page 42, second column, fourth paragraph.

too slowly

BearersOfSalvation wrote:
Again, there is NOTHING about 2-handed or single-handed weapons in the 5th edition rules.

Can I get a confirmation on this? I'd love to use my Biting Blade (a 2-handed weapon in the Eldar codex rules) along with his pistol.

Edit: Nevermind, was already refuted twice in the time I was able to type this

And one thing to keep in mind is that special close combat attack is not the same thing as special close combat weapon. Special close combat attacks are an extreme rarity now however; its one of the legacy rules that are still floating around in 40k. The old tyranid cc attack (bioplasm was it?) and the old eldar striking scorpion extra mask attack were two back when this rule was first written.


Sliggoth