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Goto is a Black Library author who is so bad that even BL is now ashamed to list him in the author index.
According to Goto, every second Eldar and Dark Eldar is worshipping Slaanesh (including Eldrad, the boss of the Ulthwé seer council, Lelith, whole craftworlds, big fat drooling child molesting farseers,...), Falcons can be brought down by throwing stones, Warp Spiders can be blocked, Harlequins are just piles of mutilated bodies after seconds of fight, Necrons and Tyranids bray, ...

He has no idea about the background and he doesn't care, as long as he is allowed to publish his sadomaso filth.

Just forget everything he wrote.

Child molesting farseers? nice!

Farmer wrote:Child molesting farseers? nice!

It's really not..

awesome topic and one i know nothing about Thanks to the OP for posing it and the members for the answers, are there any 'good' black library novels on the subject?

From what I could tell the Deldar are a very insipid and self-serving bunch of sadistic hedonists. All qualities Slaanesh would love. They don't exactly worship Slaanesh in the way that the mon keigh do. They know Slaanesh loves yummy Eldar souls, and would rather placate him/her/it, feeding its power, but at the same time, keeping it satisfied enough that it doesn't eat theirs. I think of it as if the United States were to offer arms to Al Quaeda to placate them enough to leave us alone and turn their attentiona to something else because we are useful to have around. Sure they might still hate us, but we are more useful to them in the short run if we are un-blown up so their weapons keep coming in.

Slaanesh was born out of Eldar excess, but that excess was both in things wonderful and terrible. The Craftworlds found the Path to temper themselves, Exodites found a green-living simplicity, and the Deldar delved further into excess but only of the 'terrible' kind, without so much of the 'wonderful' (unless you consider mastering torture as a wonderful art form). Harlequins are another story altogether, they don't wear spirt stones because they don't fear Slaanesh, the Laughing God protects their souls by tricking him/her/it.

This seems like a short-sighted strategy because 'it' will eventually be more powerful due to their depraved activities and sooner or later will come for them. What part of reckless hedonistic sadistic perversity isn't short-sighted, though?

yeenoghu wrote: From what I could tell the Deldar are a very insipid and self-serving bunch of sadistic hedonists. All qualities Slaanesh would love. They don't exactly worship Slaanesh in the way that the mon keigh do. They know Slaanesh loves yummy Eldar souls, and would rather placate him/her/it, feeding its power, but at the same time, keeping it satisfied enough that it doesn't eat theirs. I think of it as if the United States were to offer arms to Al Quaeda to placate them enough to leave us alone and turn their attentiona to something else because we are useful to have around. Sure they might still hate us, but we are more useful to them in the short run if we are un-blown up so their weapons keep coming in.

Slaanesh was born out of Eldar excess, but that excess was both in things wonderful and terrible. The Craftworlds found the Path to temper themselves, Exodites found a green-living simplicity, and the Deldar delved further into excess but only of the 'terrible' kind, without so much of the 'wonderful' (unless you consider mastering torture as a wonderful art form). Harlequins are another story altogether, they don't wear spirt stones because they don't fear Slaanesh, the Laughing God protects their souls by tricking him/her/it.

This seems like a short-sighted strategy because 'it' will eventually be more powerful due to their depraved activities and sooner or later will come for them. What part of reckless hedonistic sadistic perversity isn't short-sighted, though?

Thats pretty much what I thought. Essentially their slaves to slaanesh because in order to keep slaanesh away they have delved into a culture that does exactly what slaanesh is the embodiment of. So long as they they continue their depraved activities slaanesh will feed and continue to be. They may hate slaanesh but their society fuels it. Obtaining others souls allows them to rejuvenate themselves and live longer aswell as possibly reenergising their own spirit.

Hawkins wrote:awesome topic and one i know nothing about Thanks to the OP for posing it and the members for the answers, are there any 'good' black library novels on the subject?

Not yet, apart from Jes Goodwin's text in the new Codex. But now BL writers have something to base their work on.

I've always described DE as wanting to eat their cake and have it too. They want to keep on partying but also want Slaanesh off their backs.

And the webway allows them to get away with it.

It's by no means certain that Slaanesh benefits to any great extent from the pastimes of the Dark Eldar. According to the new fluff Slaanesh does not leach Dark Eldar souls - that's caused by living in the webway, which also puts them beyond Slaanesh's reach.

Also keep in mind that all of the Chaos Gods are 'fuelled' by the emotions of all living things. The loyal forces of the Imperium fuel Khorne when they go to war, and Slaanesh when they celebrate their victories. The only way to actively deprive the Chaos Gods of such fuel would be to turn away from emotion entirely (or control it rigidly like a craftworlder), or sever their connection to the material universe by forgetting that they exist (the Emperor's plan A for mankind - didn't turn out so well).

The Dark Eldar, despite their obvious similarities to their creation, are utterly unsympathetic to Slaanesh and their response is fairly reasonable. Denying Slaanesh fuel is a pretty crappy strategy, especially when the Dark Eldar are already almost entirely insulated from the consequences. The craftworlders are at best hoping to take Slaanesh down with them, while Dark Eldar society appears to be, perverse though it may be, quite sustainable.

So if I understand correctly any emotions you have in the webway do not go towards fueling chaos? And where the craftworlds plan to beat Slaanesh is to make Ynnead, the de plan to just eat all the souls so Slaanesh can't?

asimo77 wrote: So if I understand correctly any emotions you have in the webway do not go towards fueling chaos?

This is not clear, but would make sense.

asimo77 wrote:And where the craftworlds plan to beat Slaanesh is to make Ynnead, the de plan to just eat all the souls so Slaanesh can't?

Nah, the Dark Eldar plan is not to defeat Slaanesh at all, and 'eating all the souls' would be wiping themselves out since that's what keeps them alive. The Dark Eldar plan is just to remain out of Slaanesh's reach and continue leaching off the rest of the galaxy.

that is so screwed up i dont even have the words to begin to describe it....

Wait a sec if the eldar really wanted chaos dead why don't they invite everyone into the webway to party for a bit. Though there's the whole soul sucking aspect of it, and the chaos god's could always come back I guess.

cause the chaos gods couldnt give a toss about the eldar really, its just slaanesh who takes interest

Though Chaos worshipping Eldar are not impossible, the reasons Dark Eldar dont openly worship Slaanesh are very simple...

-Her materium birthing single handedly crushed their star spanning Empire and wiped out 99% of their people.
and
- To this day she slowly but surely drains their souls, they ahve no way of stopping this except by consuming the souls of lesser beings to expand the life of their own souls.

Whether the Dark Eldar are completely ignorant of how chaos works or they just simply dont care I too find it odd that their entire civilization seems to be a Slaaneshi Cult who doesnt worship Slaanesh. Whether they want to or not they are feeding her a great deal.

Meh, not their problem

ColdFire wrote:
Whether the Dark Eldar are completely ignorant of how chaos works or they just simply dont care I too find it odd that their entire civilization seems to be a Slaaneshi Cult who doesnt worship Slaanesh. Whether they want to or not they are feeding her a great deal.

I don't think that they are ignorant of how chaos works... Especially if they have Harlequins working for them...

Also, the "Default to slaanesh cause of the word pain" thing seems a bit off... sure they USED to be completely hedonistic, but as of now, it seems that Dark Eldar are moving more towards a "Chaos Utopia" in which all of the four aspects of chaos are met.

Archon and Dracons are constantly schemeing and aspiring to overthrow eachother, or to just cause as much 'havoc' as they can. This constant CHANGE of leadership, tactics, and just about everything (as well as the strong aspirations) would fuel Tzeentch more then anyone else.

Grotesques and Talos employ ways to avert death (Hell, the entire civilization is striving for immortality by means of soul torture) and Haemonculi (as well as ALL the dark eldar now..) employ a large variety of poisions and toxins to spread diseases throughout their enemies which would fuel Nurgle more then anyone else.

Mandrakes (the Decapitator in specific) demand payment in skulls and the bodies of their victims, and take great delight in spilling the blood of all kinds of foes, and wyches, warp beasts, and hellions do constant battle in their arenas and employ weapons that seem specifically tailored to slice open their foes, so that they may bathe in the blood of their enemies, which (obviously) would fuel Khorne more then anyone else.

So I guess all that leaves is Slaanesh, which the aspect of torture would apply to She-Who-Thirsts, as well as taking pleasure in all of the various "entertainment" events, but I would say only as much as the Imperium of Man (which does employ torture, especially of its own kind ((See =I= )) and the pride an imperial officer ((or even a space marine! Including Grey Knights!)) takes in smiting ones foe in the name of the emperor! ) or just about any other race.

If anything, the Dark eldar(in general) are "secret" (or ignorant) followers of all the gods EXCEPT Slaanesh, and the potential for one of the gods (especially Khorne) to use their race as an ample pawn in the Great Game (especially against his Rival god, Slaanesh) is very great indeed. I would not be surprised if down the line we start seeing some 'chaos eldar' come from the Dark Eldar... Remember, the Enemy of my Enemy is my Enemy (potential) Friend!

Also all this talk of Dark Eldar hating Eldar and vice versa, I think both of them hate things such as Nids/Chaos/Necrons more then they hate each other. It is in no way similar to the hatred felt between Chaos Space Marine and Space Marine...

The Dark Eldar live in the 'limbo' zone I thought, in between the real world and the Immaterium.

Their big leader uses the souls of the dead to combine them into a Menos Grande. Also he has very strong leutenants that are called Arankar which are like half-ghost half-Deldar. These have great spiritual power and can use their Bankai pretty much whenever thay want.

Smarteye wrote:
Their big leader uses the souls of the dead to combine them into a Menos Grande. Also he has very strong leutenants that are called Arankar which are like half-ghost half-Deldar. These have great spiritual power and can use their Bankai pretty much whenever thay want.

Does that mean that Ichigo Ulthran will be their undoing?

I am thinking Yriel
but Eldrad works

Retrias wrote:I am thinking Yriel

Who is Yriel? Do you mean Hat-and-Clogs?

Tyranic Marta wrote:that is so screwed up i dont even have the words to begin to describe it....

Says the man with the Lucius avatar .

Man ive played lucius for so long it just comes natural hehe.

Anime? In my Warhammer?

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

ColdFire wrote:
Whether the Dark Eldar are completely ignorant of how chaos works or they just simply dont care I too find it odd that their entire civilization seems to be a Slaaneshi Cult who doesnt worship Slaanesh. Whether they want to or not they are feeding her a great deal.

I don't think that they are ignorant of how chaos works... Especially if they have Harlequins working for them...

Also, the "Default to slaanesh cause of the word pain" thing seems a bit off... sure they USED to be completely hedonistic, but as of now, it seems that Dark Eldar are moving more towards a "Chaos Utopia" in which all of the four aspects of chaos are met.

Archon and Dracons are constantly schemeing and aspiring to overthrow eachother, or to just cause as much 'havoc' as they can. This constant CHANGE of leadership, tactics, and just about everything (as well as the strong aspirations) would fuel Tzeentch more then anyone else.

Grotesques and Talos employ ways to avert death (Hell, the entire civilization is striving for immortality by means of soul torture) and Haemonculi (as well as ALL the dark eldar now..) employ a large variety of poisions and toxins to spread diseases throughout their enemies which would fuel Nurgle more then anyone else.

Mandrakes (the Decapitator in specific) demand payment in skulls and the bodies of their victims, and take great delight in spilling the blood of all kinds of foes, and wyches, warp beasts, and hellions do constant battle in their arenas and employ weapons that seem specifically tailored to slice open their foes, so that they may bathe in the blood of their enemies, which (obviously) would fuel Khorne more then anyone else.

So I guess all that leaves is Slaanesh, which the aspect of torture would apply to She-Who-Thirsts, as well as taking pleasure in all of the various "entertainment" events, but I would say only as much as the Imperium of Man (which does employ torture, especially of its own kind ((See =I= )) and the pride an imperial officer ((or even a space marine! Including Grey Knights!)) takes in smiting ones foe in the name of the emperor! ) or just about any other race.

If anything, the Dark eldar(in general) are "secret" (or ignorant) followers of all the gods EXCEPT Slaanesh, and the potential for one of the gods (especially Khorne) to use their race as an ample pawn in the Great Game (especially against his Rival god, Slaanesh) is very great indeed. I would not be surprised if down the line we start seeing some 'chaos eldar' come from the Dark Eldar... Remember, the Enemy of my Enemy is my Enemy (potential) Friend!

Also all this talk of Dark Eldar hating Eldar and vice versa, I think both of them hate things such as Nids/Chaos/Necrons more then they hate each other. It is in no way similar to the hatred felt between Chaos Space Marine and Space Marine...

Well you could say that about any army but it doesnt mean they are "secretly" worshipping chaos, aside from the Nids which follow pretty basic organic which almost make them mindless every race has attributes which would make them strong contestants for chaos worship or at least feeding the dark gods.
Even the Gods themselves would be feeding off one another....
-Each time a daemon goes to war no matter its affiliation is that not a gift to Khorne, Khorne feeds off of war and destruction.
-The Great Game, the eternal battle of wits and might that the gods have playing against one another has them constantyl scheming to overpower each other or undermine one another.
-They all lust for power, they take massive pride in their schemes, concoctions or warriors especially Slaanesh and Nurgle.
-War brings destruction, despair and fear which are all things Nurgle feeds upon.

Dark Eldar dont worship chaos more then any other race, but their culture is mostly a Slaaneshi dream, the entire basis of their culture is pleasure, selfishness and endulging in every way possible in every little moment. They are all basically little Slaanesh's, they believe they are divinely beautiful which is a common Eldar trait, they are dedicated entirely to enjoyment, pleasure and excess and they arent shy about it.

sounds like the nice version of the Emperors Children....