Terminators, waste of points? You decide

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**kronk**

This weekend was typical for my assault terminators. In this case, 4 LC's and 4 Hammernators. Their LRC soaked up a ton of fire before blowing up in turn 2. They had to get out and hoof it across the board, soaking up tons of fire, failing one pinning check and then failing a morale check. However, the 2 surviving terminators cleared my opponent's troops off their only objective on turn 6, winning the game for me.

The reason I take them is that they become priority one for most of my opponents, but can survive the onslaught. The hammernators will take on the AP2 hits, while the lightning claws soak up everything else that I can apply to them.

I don't always run them for many of the reasons already pointed out. But when I do, they usually make their points back or turn the game for me. I don't often run normal terminators except in Apoc games.

**ShadowZetki**

These are very good points, and as for the not very mobile without a landraider can't they run like other infantry? Also if you going to footslog them perhaps they should be gun termies? Also if your going to footslog them you can always combat squad them. Anyway yes they make a decent unit to mess with your opponents mind, however seeing how most players are guard, or marines. (and most others have played marines or played against them many times) I don't exactly to find that as a very valid thing. Like I said if you could drop pod them they would be golden an absolute must(in most cases) but personally I see them as something you shouldn't worry about fitting into your army without the rest of your army in there (2 chapter masters are definately much worse to see than terminators seriously that orbital bombardment is really annoying) Some of you might not agree with me on this, but go fight an army with 2 chapter masters, 3 whirlwinds, and 3 drop pod dreads. Or go fight a guard list with three manticores and 2 company command squads with masters of the ordinances and masters of the fleet, that is some real pain those two lists can leave your forces dead in the water very fast.

**thorgir**

Space wolf terminators are pretty awesome, but you have to tool them up for CC.
they can pretty much kill anything and they're more expensive than normal termies (63 points for ss and th)

**pdawg517**

I never leave home with out my hammernators! They make a great linebreaking unit capable of taking and delivering a beating. That said, don't throw that unit away at a horde. Hordes really are hammernators weakness. Throw them at the enemies hammer unit and you usually come out on top.

When I run a chaplain I run 4XLC's and 3X TH/SS in a crusader. 16 LC, 9 Hammers, and 4 PW attacks that all reroll to hit. LC's get reroll to wound. That unit can hurt everything from hordes to big nasty tyranid MC's!

**ShadowZetki**

thorgir wrote:Space wolf terminators are pretty awesome, but you have to tool them up for CC.
they can pretty much kill anything and they're more expensive than normal termies (63 points for ss and th)

Ouch that is brutal point cost! However just take five give them only storm shields (one have mark of the wulfen) put them in a drop pod, and that is 290 points of pain that can assault the second they come in I think that is definately very much worth it!

**pdawg517**

You cannot assualt out of a DP.

I think SW termies strength is the fact they can really mix and match their squads for shooting and CC. Give 1 or 2 TH/SS, one a CML or assault cannon, and 1 or 2 wolf claws. Put in a LR and profit.

**kronk**

You can't assault when you deepstrike, unless these guys have a special rule I don't know about.

**pdawg517**

As far as I know, no unit in the wolves dex has the ability assault off the DS.

**ShadowZetki**

pdawg517 wrote:You cannot assualt out of a DP.

I think SW termies strength is the fact they can really mix and match their squads for shooting and CC. Give 1 or 2 TH/SS, one a CML or assault cannon, and 1 or 2 wolf claws. Put in a LR and profit.

hmm well that is stupid, that makes a pod well, almost useless for certain units. Then again I don't play sm so my knowledge is limited at best (but I just checked the dex on scribd yeah you can't

oh well)

**Mad4Minis**

I never used Terms much when I played Marines, though they do have their uses. Im building a SM army for my son and Ill include some, but maybe only on reg and one CC squad.

Now that I am playing Necrons they dont seem quite as tough as they used to.

They are still some of my favorite SM models though.

**Chongara**

pdawg517 wrote:You cannot assualt out of a DP.

I think SW termies strength is the fact they can really mix and match their squads for shooting and CC. Give 1 or 2 TH/SS, one a CML or assault cannon, and 1 or 2 wolf claws. Put in a LR and profit.

Making SW "Assault" Terminators is far too expensive. TH/SS is over 60 points, and 2x Claws isn't any fun.

I like SW "Tacticals" on paper anyway. You get a nontrivial discount over Codex Tacticals. You lack a powerfists, but Power Weapons can be better tools for certain jobs anyway. Granted the Power Fist IS better overall, but it isn't a total loss. You can ever afford a a single Wolf Claw and still be getting cost effective model. The ability combine them with Power Armor bodies is kind of fun. Throw AP3 on the Terminators and AP2 on the Cheaper PA models and you also don't lose any ability to take special weapons.

That said I 't fielded them very often. They're competing for slots with Dreads, Wolf Scouts, Lone Wolves and either other Wolf Guard (being used as pack leaders). All units which I have been very consistently happy with.

Might be fun to go nuts with Logan someday though.

**pdawg517**

Shadow,

Drop pods are not useless. They are great for getting a unit somewhere. The downside is you lose your mobility when you land, but it can be used very well with MM/HF dreads to get those first turn melta shots off.

As I mentioned, I do not play SW. The unit I mentioned seemed like a fun hard hitting unit. I don't know the points cost for the unit though.

**Chongara**

pdawg517 wrote:Shadow,

I don't know the points cost for the unit though.

A single SW TH/SS Terminator model is over 60 points. Just FYI.

**ShadowZetki**

pdawg517 wrote:Shadow,

Drop pods are not useless. They are great for getting a unit somewhere. The downside is you lose your mobility when you land, but it can be used very well with MM/HF dreads to get those first turn melta shots off.

As I mentioned, I do not play SW. The unit I mentioned seemed like a fun hard hitting unit. I don't know the points cost for the unit though.

Chongara wrote:
A single SW TH/SS Terminator model is over 60 points. Just FYI..

To be fair I do not play any imperial forces mostly my friends just consult me for tactical advice so I'm decently educated on them

I usually read the codexes on scribd. However you do make a very good point with the drop pod, but I did say almost useless for most units.

Yes space wolf termie (they are wolf guard right?) are expensive but just take 4 of them and 1 with the mark and exchange their stormbolter for a storm shield and you have a 2+ 3+ unit for only 255 points, that isn't halfbad. And you dont NEED a powerfist a powerweapon is just fine for 2A (d6+1 for leader) base with I4. However it's probably best not to give them anything afterall 3++ 5++ dosent matter just swamp them with basic attacks and that 2+ will fail but if you can force that 3++ it helps your chances but not as much as if they were at their normal 5++

**Element206**

I have terminators and love the model...like many others. But since the release of the sanguinary guard, I have decided to go with them...relative in points cost, same armor save, except move much better and have a mammoth roll for attack! Not to mention the master crafted weapons

**ShadowZetki**

Element206 wrote:I have terminators and love the model...like many others. But since the release of the sanguinary guard, I have decided to go with them...relative in points cost, same armor save, except move much better and have a mammoth roll for attack! Not to mention the master crafted weapons

Oh wow thats pretty brutal, although I haven't had the chance to fight the new blood angles however from reading their codex and hearing some stories it seems they are quite scary and devastating

**pdawg517**

They are very easy to kill with no invulns. I have yet to have luck with them. May have to try putting the Guard in my Stormraven!

**ShadowZetki**

pdawg517 wrote:They are very easy to kill with no invulns. I have yet to have luck with them. May have to try putting the Guard in my Stormraven!

True but think of it like this, ++ save or no everything dies it's a matter of what this unit does before they die(or the game ends) so If they killed alot of guys or caused a good enough distraction I'd say they were a good buy, if they didn't do much at all live or die it wasn't a good buy. Also if anyone plays nids, could they check my post of Tyranid vs Chaos Marines 2500pts cause I need some advice I'm supposed to play my friends chaos like tonight and I have never even tied with him

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pdawg517 wrote:They are very easy to kill with no invulns. I have yet to have luck with them. May have to try putting the Guard in my Stormraven!

True but think of it like this, ++ save or no everything dies it's a matter of what this unit does before they die(or the game ends) so If they killed alot of guys or caused a good enough distraction I'd say they were a good buy, if they didn't do much at all live or die it wasn't a good buy. Also if anyone plays nids, could they check my post of Tyranid vs Chaos Marines 2500pts cause I need some advice I'm supposed to play my friends chaos like tonight and I have never even tied with him

**Jabbdo**

Kommissar Kel wrote:Tactical Terminators: They should be used in a, well tactical Sense; that is to say equip 1 with either a Cyclone or Ass-cannon, then Slog them or Deepstrike them a decent distance away(no need for teleport homers if you do not Deep-suicide them close to enemy units). With all their shooting(a 5 man squad always acts like a 10 man squad of std marines @12-24", and the cyclone/Ass-cannon adds 2 more shots to that). They should be used to shoot, almost exclusively; only engaging in melee as a last resort or against vehicles that cannot fight back(or at least don't have DCCWs).

Assault termies really do come in 2 distinct varieties with 2 distinct roles.
First are LC termies: they are for troops, generally hard troops, but troops just the same. They are bullies just like an Ork Nobz Mob; they pick on units that have difficulty hurting them in return, and are often slower in combat. This is also where their lack of sweeping advance is detrimental; they cannot mop-up the unit they just broke in an assault, and can possibly get re-assaulted by them in the enemies turn(depending on when they break the enemy, enemy unit str, etc).

Second: the TH/SS termies are just all-around bad-asses, if the enemy unit survives the first round of combat, and holds, then it strikes at the same initiative as the termies. Also they have the 3+ invul save which keeps them around Much, much longer. Where the LC termies are bullies picking on the weak, these guys are your enforcers/beat-sticks picking on literally everything your opponent has. they are not completely invulnerable, but much like the tick, they are Nigh-invulnerable. There is a reason most IC's pay more than the price of a single TH/SS termie just to get himself their titular weapons(my Wolf lord pays 60 points just for the thunder hammer+Storm Shield, and a 'nilla captain/chapter master pays 45pts).

QFT.

One of the best analysis' I have read on terminators. I especially like the "bully" aspect of the LC

+10