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Now before some people start to hammer me with their experiences with Terminators please remember this is purely a friendly opinion based topic. A friend of mine (who is a very skilled marine player in my opinion) and I have been talking abouy terminators for quite sometime and we agree with eachother to an extent but we also know that this will never be resolved. So I ask you all what are your opinions on Terminators, do you think the points could be spent elsewhere? Do you think other elite choices could be better? Or do you never leave home without them? Please say what you think and why and I will be sure to post my thoughts on what you could better use.

Black Templars Sword Brethren Assault Terminatos with FC and LCs are my favourite unit in the entire BT 'dex, simply for the fact that it makes MEQs think twice about charging your "normal" marines. Rerolls to hit and to wound, with S5 and I5 and 2+ save? Sign me up!

Well.....i love the mini's. But thats about as far as it goes. Im a big believer in dreads and the firepower and general scariness of them. I DO have a unit of termies, but very rarely if ever use them. they are window dressing as far as im concerned, and a big waste of pts spent better elsewhere....

The terminator points could be used elsewhere, but Terminators are line-breakers imo. They could be deployed with diffrent weapons ( like missle launcher, assault cannon, or flame thrower) they are a good elite choice, but yes points could be spent elsewhere and you could still sustain a good force without Terminators

You cant get a better line breaker than an Iron Clad dread IMO. An Iron Clad in a drop-pod is just plain awesome, and will put the s**ts up your opponent. For sure. But then i am biased. I have a Master Of The Forge army with 4 dreads in it. And although I do have to take the Termies if I play a game of 2000pts or so, I would always try to avoid them. Even going so far as to borrow some of my bros minis to fill the pts vacuum......

As a CSM player, I find my Termies to be invaluable (though that may be from playing against some very bad players). They are easily the most useful unit I have in my army, and are one of the most flexible. As a line breaker, they are okay, as a diversion that can still beat sh!t up, they are great, as a super secret assault unit that deep strikes in the least optimal place, they are wonderful.

I think Terminators are great. Theres only two problems I see with them. 1. They have a single wound. I have been beat in CC by Nobz for the sole reason of they have more wounds than me. 2. They can only ride in Land Raiders. So on top of your 200+ pt unit, you have to put them in a 250 pt vehicle (if you want to give them a transport). And to continue that, even the largest LR (crusader) can't hold a full squad of 10. Though I suppose their ability to deep strike does make up for that... Even so I think they are worth their points, as their ability to f*** up anything is invaluable. Plus assault termies. A group of 5 with 2 lightning claws and 3 TH/SS will kill anything they want.

The terminators in C:SM are pretty damn cheap for what you get. They make a great hammer unit, and you can even make an entire army out of them (using multiple cheap scout units to score).

Assault termis are awesome. Expensive, yes, but they beatface pretty damn well. Just make sure not to charge something thats more killy than you (especially if your all TH/SS!)

Normal terminators, however, I do not see the point of. They pretty much have to footslog to do anything useful, only get 1 special wep per 5 (normal SM/BA), and cannot get SS's so plasma makes very short work of them. Its nice that they can get chainfists, which are pretty awesome, but otherwise I think they're a waste when you can get TH/SS termis!

In the last game I used them, my 5-strong terminator squad (with ass cannon) managed to take down 3 of a squad of Bloodclaws before dying to return fire and assault. My ability to roll 1's is unparallelled.

I do love both my WG terminators and my Iron Warriors Teminators. They've never let me down yet.

normal termies- pfft. waste. Plasma in da face! Goodbye terminators.
LC termies- better. "I kill you before you attack!...Oh s***." Plasma in da face! Goodbye terminators.
TH/SS termies- Now you're talking. "I kill all your predators and vindicators!...Oh s***." Plasma in da face! Oh, wait- 3+ inv. Hello terminators.

shrike wrote:normal termies- pfft. waste. Plasma in da face! Goodbye terminators.
LC termies- better. "I kill you before you attack!...Oh s***." Plasma in da face! Goodbye terminators.
TH/SS termies- Now you're talking. "I kill all your predators and vindicators!...Oh s***." Plasma in da face! Oh, wait- 3+ inv. Hello terminators.

You seem to be forgetting about the copius amount of Land Raider (with the assualt tank rule) which generally don't die from plasma although Melta would mess it up.

Well, TBH as they are all armed with power fists, if you get hit by a unit with a few power weapons you can pretty much say goodbye to them. I go for dreads instead as they are harder to kill and carrier some heavier gear.

Tactical Terminators: They should be used in a, well tactical Sense; that is to say equip 1 with either a Cyclone or Ass-cannon, then Slog them or Deepstrike them a decent distance away(no need for teleport homers if you do not Deep-suicide them close to enemy units). With all their shooting(a 5 man squad always acts like a 10 man squad of std marines @12-24", and the cyclone/Ass-cannon adds 2 more shots to that). They should be used to shoot, almost exclusively; only engaging in melee as a last resort or against vehicles that cannot fight back(or at least don't have DCCWs).

Assault termies really do come in 2 distinct varieties with 2 distinct roles.
First are LC termies: they are for troops, generally hard troops, but troops just the same. They are bullies just like an Ork Nobz Mob; they pick on units that have difficulty hurting them in return, and are often slower in combat. This is also where their lack of sweeping advance is detrimental; they cannot mop-up the unit they just broke in an assault, and can possibly get re-assaulted by them in the enemies turn(depending on when they break the enemy, enemy unit str, etc).

Second: the TH/SS termies are just all-around bad-asses, if the enemy unit survives the first round of combat, and holds, then it strikes at the same initiative as the termies. Also they have the 3+ invul save which keeps them around Much, much longer. Where the LC termies are bullies picking on the weak, these guys are your enforcers/beat-sticks picking on literally everything your opponent has. they are not completely invulnerable, but much like the tick, they are Nigh-invulnerable. There is a reason most IC's pay more than the price of a single TH/SS termie just to get himself their titular weapons(my Wolf lord pays 60 points just for the thunder hammer+Storm Shield, and a 'nilla captain/chapter master pays 45pts).

Edit: almost Forgot; All termies(except for TH/SS) still have a 1/3 chance to save vs Plasma and the like. Which is incredible survivability and most people do not seem to be taking that into account here. I kept seeing "oh look plasma to the face, bye-bye termie" or "bunch of pwoer weapons and the termies never get a strike with their powerfists" these are fallacy. the only bits they have to worry about are howling Banshees(who first need to wound the powerfist termies; then 1/3 of those wounds are still saved), Harlequins with lots of kisses(to a far-lesser degree), enemy LC termies, Chaos Termies with Power weapons(honestly true tactical terminators, but you will have about equal numbers), and large numbers of genestealers(which again have to rend before you have to worry about your 1/3 save). Also the Max 6 plasma Shots(2 grey hunters with plasma guns and a Wolf guard with a combi plas, or similar plague marines) you would be on the receiving end of would also only kill about 1-2 marines(6*2/3=4hit*5/6=3.33wounds*2/3=1.111 dead termies)
SS termies obviously have a better survival rate versus all of those things, being that they have double the chance to save(2/3 chance).

+1 Kommissar Kel

Also, plasma spam is deadly to the user, too

Regular Terminators have a talent that other Space Marine infantry do not have, which is the ability to shoot up to 24" while moving. The ability to retreat while shooting is pretty powerful. Is some Fleet unit within 18"? Wander back and shoot, rinse, repeat.

Plus they can actually do something when they Deep Strike.

Still, I prefer Dreadnoughts. Less vulnerable to Lasguns.

If i had the choice between a Termie squad or a dread, i would go for the dread, not that the termies are bad, just dreads are a little bit better

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:You cant get a better line breaker than an Iron Clad dread IMO. An Iron Clad in a drop-pod is just plain awesome, and will put the s**ts up your opponent. For sure. But then i am biased. I have a Master Of The Forge army with 4 dreads in it. And although I do have to take the Termies if I play a game of 2000pts or so, I would always try to avoid them. Even going so far as to borrow some of my bros minis to fill the pts vacuum......

Melissia wrote:The terminators in C:SM are pretty damn cheap for what you get. They make a great hammer unit, and you can even make an entire army out of them (using multiple cheap scout units to score).

Kommissar Kel wrote:Tactical Terminators: They should be used in a, well tactical Sense; that is to say equip 1 with either a Cyclone or Ass-cannon, then Slog them or Deepstrike them a decent distance away(no need for teleport homers if you do not Deep-suicide them close to enemy units). With all their shooting(a 5 man squad always acts like a 10 man squad of std marines @12-24", and the cyclone/Ass-cannon adds 2 more shots to that). They should be used to shoot, almost exclusively; only engaging in melee as a last resort or against vehicles that cannot fight back(or at least don't have DCCWs).

Assault termies really do come in 2 distinct varieties with 2 distinct roles.
First are LC termies: they are for troops, generally hard troops, but troops just the same. They are bullies just like an Ork Nobz Mob; they pick on units that have difficulty hurting them in return, and are often slower in combat. This is also where their lack of sweeping advance is detrimental; they cannot mop-up the unit they just broke in an assault, and can possibly get re-assaulted by them in the enemies turn(depending on when they break the enemy, enemy unit str, etc).

Second: the TH/SS termies are just all-around bad-asses, if the enemy unit survives the first round of combat, and holds, then it strikes at the same initiative as the termies. Also they have the 3+ invul save which keeps them around Much, much longer. Where the LC termies are bullies picking on the weak, these guys are your enforcers/beat-sticks picking on literally everything your opponent has. they are not completely invulnerable, but much like the tick, they are Nigh-invulnerable. There is a reason most IC's pay more than the price of a single TH/SS termie just to get himself their titular weapons(my Wolf lord pays 60 points just for the thunder hammer+Storm Shield, and a 'nilla captain/chapter master pays 45pts).

Edit: almost Forgot; All termies(except for TH/SS) still have a 1/3 chance to save vs Plasma and the like. Which is incredible survivability and most people do not seem to be taking that into account here. I kept seeing "oh look plasma to the face, bye-bye termie" or "bunch of pwoer weapons and the termies never get a strike with their powerfists" these are fallacy. the only bits they have to worry about are howling Banshees(who first need to wound the powerfist termies; then 1/3 of those wounds are still saved), Harlequins with lots of kisses(to a far-lesser degree), enemy LC termies, Chaos Termies with Power weapons(honestly true tactical terminators, but you will have about equal numbers), and large numbers of genestealers(which again have to rend before you have to worry about your 1/3 save). Also the Max 6 plasma Shots(2 grey hunters with plasma guns and a Wolf guard with a combi plas, or similar plague marines) you would be on the receiving end of would also only kill about 1-2 marines(6*2/3=4hit*5/6=3.33wounds*2/3=1.111 dead termies)
SS termies obviously have a better survival rate versus all of those things, being that they have double the chance to save(2/3 chance).

wow lots of posts here. So I'm going to take the three most interesting posts and do this one at a time. Why spend the extra points on an ironclad when you could take a regular dread(still str 10) in a drop pod, or go overkill with a venerable? You figure all are great anti-tank and commonly your enemy cannot touch a dread in CC to begin with so I don't quite see the ironclad to be much more valuable when they all function in the same way, but still yes it is aromor 13 front and side and for only 30 points more it is a good thing. However do you honestly need to spend the extra points for something you (should) pod in as a suicide tank/hero hunter? Probably not.

So you are saying 200points for 5 str8 I4/1 units are cheap for what you get? I would like to contest this yes they are str8 power weapon which is good for killing vehicles for the most part. However they are still only 1 wound and yes they are 2+ armor save however their inv save is a crappy 5+ (according to army builder 3+ with stormshields? I think this may be a glitch) however I think csm termies are much better you pay 195 for 4 with a champion and the mark of Tzeench so they are faster, cheaper, and generally more survivalble for what they are. Or how about the ork terminator type guys? Sure they do not have an ++ however with grotsnik you can give them a 5++ and their transports are much cheaper also they have 2 wounds furious charge and 3 base attacks. As for the scout army thing, ah I have seen similar builds the issue is you rely too much on your terminators and if they and their transports are killed then that does constitute an issue, however I am by no means saying it isnt effective.

Well terminators can either be great at what they do or they will suck terribly (lets face it 2+ 5++ str 8 or not get bogged down by charging boyz mob and that might be a serious issue) And with tac termies you either leave them low initiative with guns or take their guns away for better CC (still I1 but the better ++ is not something to laugh at) the main issue is combat effectiveness sure they can pop boxes easily but if you deepstrike them I hope you made them gun termies(those are brutal sometimes) cause if you deepstrike CC termies that might distract them for a turn(or sometimes not) but are you really willing to sacrafice them like that? And if you footslog them well the enemy dosent have to really look at them for quite sometime cause the longe range marines are the better targets. So commonly you have to take a landraider that is where points really add up would you rather deep striking 10 termies? Or transporting 5? I'm still wondering why they do not get drop pods. And alternatives could be dreads, or mayber sternguard can get the job done just as well, or why not the legion of the damned guys? I'm kinda surprised I havent seen anything other than termies or dreads ever.

I like to make sure my termies are front and center. Though not always practicaly in all lists I've learned they they don't need to make up their points by eliminating enemy units.

Termies are an effective psycological unit.They pull their weight by (generally) soaking up enourmous amounts of firepower meant for other squads, or simply changing battle plans by sitting patiently and prominently just off the side of the table waiting to Deepsrike in at just the wrong moment for your opponent.

The best part is, you really cant just ignore them. Other units might (or should be) higher priority, but eventually your going to be forced to deal with them (which is usually never pretty).

Sure they can get bogged down in CC or forsaken by "Armoursavia" - most fickle of the dice gods just after "Tohit" and "Trip, Lord of the Difficult Terrain roll", but you can really say the same thing for any other unit as well. YMMV

I used to use them all the time but have become unsatisfied with what they bring to the table, I still occasionally run them but most of the time I fill up with some assault termies and dreads.

I play 13th company so no termies for me. But they were OK with my Chaos army.

I like dreadnoughts way more to be honest.

Why does everyone bring a LR with their termies? Just get 6 more terminators for that price. Terminators practically add to your armour saturation, so a termie + dread list has the same protection that guards IG chimera hull spam. You just don't have enough AT (anti-tank OR anti-terminator)

I brought my termies into a game against my friend's tau (first game in 5th edition) and my brother's Tau (my second game in 5th edition) and they generally didn't do so hot. Plasma to the face :/

M.

A terminator for 40 points is as cheap as getting a marine with powerfist, but you also have twice as good armor (its half as likely to roll a 1 then a 1 or 2) + an invunerable save, also they have base 2 atks.

I think they are pretty good, you just have to be careful when fighting things with power weapons since they are going first, rending can be a bit painful.

What i dont like is that they are not that mobile without a landraider, and that is a huge chunk of points. Deepstriking is best done behind something safe, but you still need an open area so its pretty difficult to get a good spot IMHO.

Infantryman wrote:I brought my termies into a game against my friend's tau (first game in 5th edition) and my brother's Tau (my second game in 5th edition) and they generally didn't do so hot. Plasma to the face :/

M.

Against Tau, you can deep strike a squad of ~5 TH/SS termies right into their lines. Sure, they have a turn to shoot at them, but they'll have to put a lot of firepower in them to actually kill them, and if they don't, then they're pretty much guaranteed to clean up well. Worst case scenario, they die, and your opponent took an entire shooting phase to get rid of them.

Yeah, I didn't DS them. Forgot they could do that.

M.

I beat down a fully tooled up Gaszkull and his unit of nobz with PCs and of course cyberork armour with FNP, with a unit of 5 ATs.

If you use terminators right, they are awesome, if they are used wrong, pitiful. As with any unit it has to be in the right circumstances.

Doctadeth wrote:I beat down a fully tooled up Gaszkull and his unit of nobz with PCs and of course cyberork armour with FNP, with a unit of 5 ATs.

If you use terminators right, they are awesome, if they are used wrong, pitiful. As with any unit it has to be in the right circumstances.

I agree with this. Terminators tend to be brilliant and decisive, or a waste of points that either do nothing or are swept off the table by specialist elite killers. While a lot of units can be described this way, the points investment to make them functional tends to make any of their failures more glaring, though used correctly and with a bit of luck they can also easily defeat well over their points cost of enemy models, often attracting a lot of attention away from the rest of your army in the process.