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Lucid wrote:
If the didn't have boob armor how would we even know that they're female, except maybe when the helmet is off (and even then it could be a toss up). I'm not arguing the practicality of it, but that is probably the reason for that particular choice. . . and I see more offensive stuff irl worn by girls who shouldn't even know about the birds and the bees yet.

My brothers Girlfriend actually picked up some of these models because she liked that they weren't dressed in the traditional skimpy anime heroine suits (and she doesn't even play)


Sainthazard Wrote:
Gee, I don't know, maybe because they're called Sisters of Battle? That's not indication enough that they're female?

And I'm not saying the breasts have to go away altogether, just that they need to be toned down a bit. Okay, more than a bit.


^from the previous thread that was locked^

I agree, the Boobs look like rediculous extra apendages on the models, but not sexy/raunchy. Having them toned down wouldn't bother me, but I don't want to have another model that looks just like a marine.

Melissia wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:I bet the 40k fanbase is 99% male so whats the harm in trying to cater for their tastes?

People say the same thing about gaming, despite the fact that at least 40% of all gamers are female.

There's a sizable faction of female gamers that don't mind the sexy aspect of Sci-Fi/Fantasy art though. Believe it or not, some of them actually like the idea of dressing somewhat provocatively, or at the very least in a way that accentuates their femininity.

People say the same thing about gaming, despite the fact that at least 40% of all gamers are female.

Quote your source I spent ten years looking for one

as for videogames, yeah we really do need to tone it down, as games get more and more prevalent we're being taught more and more the super model image that's so unrealistic and generally unattainable. And as more females become gamers THEY are being taught the image which is damaging to them, especially as the video game girls image is even more unrealistic and unreachable and even unhealthy than the traditional super model. (which by the way the traditional super model doesn't even look like a super model, they're digitally altered. and Video game girls generally would snap in half if they were ever real.)

There's a sizable faction of female gamers that don't mind the sexy aspect of Sci-Fi/Fantasy art though. Believe it or not, some of them actually like the idea of dressing somewhat provocatively, or at the very least in a way that accentuates their femininity.

As I said just above, though, it's an unattainable goal, it's one thing for mature adult like us who know this, it's another for younger minds that are still developing their world image.

Manchu wrote:@Saint Hazard: Oh, and what are "modern convents militant"?

A fancy word I use for modern nuns with guns.

Which do exist. They're rare, and often the Catholic church will claim to have no association whatsoever with them, but I personally witnessed a group of half a dozen angry nuns attack a Gay Pride rally outside my apartment a few years ago with baseball bats. Scary stuff.

Witzkatz wrote:@Melissia: While I fully understany and respect your position of thinking what the SoB should look like...how can you be so sure that your interpretation is necessarily the "right" one that GW obviously had in mind, but that was screwed up by the sculptors

The fact that "Sisters Hospitalier" exist makes me sure.

Similarly, their position as the official army of the Ecclesiarchy-- you know, basically a grimdark mock-up of the Catholic Church complete with its own space pope, the Ecclesiarch?-- its guardians, its soldiers, and its regulators reinforces this interpretation. Their setup, all of their unit names, their organizational names, and so on all indicate an extremely heavy religious bent, and their supreme discipline and skill compared to the Guard as well as their vastly improved armor lends them to image of the holy knight of the church. They go on "Wars of Faith", IE, holy wars, to cleanse out heretics and xenos from worlds declared to be holy lands. They ARE the crusading knights of the Imperium. They even assist the Inquisition in hunting down heretics, destroying those who blaspheme the name of the Emperor and His holy words.

I think there's no other interpretation even possible given the fluff.

Reasonable Marine approves of this thead.

gendoikari87 wrote:[snip]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/esa-study-40-percent-of-us-gamers-are-women.ars

This was two years ago. The amount of women in gaming has increases since then.

Manchu wrote:

Reasonable Marine approves of this thead.

OMG epic win, you've made half of my argument against SOB for me! I had to pic myself up off the ground after laughing so hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:[snip]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/esa-study-40-percent-of-us-gamers-are-women.ars

This was two years ago. The amount of women in gaming has increases since then.

where were all these girls when I was in high school? There was one that I remember and she was taken.

I think they should look at the female spartan from Halo Reach for inspiration she has no discernable 'abutments' on her chest plate but still retains a feminine waist, hips and bum, with longer legs and shorter arms for the body. Messing with these ratios abit could create a pleasingly female form without silly BEWB ARMORR...

They follow the rule for all fantasy females:
Good females wear form-fitting clothing that reveals little to no skin.

Evil females wear form-fitting clothing that reveals alot of skin.

Monster Rain wrote:

Melissia wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:I bet the 40k fanbase is 99% male so whats the harm in trying to cater for their tastes?

People say the same thing about gaming, despite the fact that at least 40% of all gamers are female.

There's a sizable faction of female gamers that don't mind the sexy aspect of Sci-Fi/Fantasy art though. Believe it or not, some of them actually like the idea of dressing somewhat provocatively, or at the very least in a way that accentuates their femininity.

There is also a portion of the male population that finds certain trends in female character design to be silly. I like sisters conceptually fluff-wise and their rules are cool if outdated. It's an army I'd probably play if I wasn't convinced that every one of the infantry models should should count as having a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

You can certainly have a character design that feels "Feminine" while still seeming sensible and not overly sexualized. Hell it doesn't even have to be strictly "Practical" looking, plenty of cool characters both male and female would be incredibly silly in the real world. It's just a matter of A) The aesthetic actually matching the feel of the characters it's supposed ot represent and B) Not being blatantly designed for titillation.

If the Sisters of Battle ever get a multi-part plastic Battle Sister squad (which is unlikely) I certainly hope they don't make them so outrageously provocative that you feel guilty assembling and painting them, like people probably would with Witch Elves.

And one thing I'd really like to see is a Sisters of Battle Dreadnought, with a Veteran Sister Superior helmet and (if it was an option in a hugely unlikely 5th Edition Codex) the option of an Inferno Cannon-putting a whole new spin on the phrase "She's HOT!".

gendoikari87 wrote:where were all these girls when I was in high school? There was one that I remember and she was taken.

Probably trying to avoid the desperate young men looking for women like them.

Chongara wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Melissia wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:I bet the 40k fanbase is 99% male so whats the harm in trying to cater for their tastes?

People say the same thing about gaming, despite the fact that at least 40% of all gamers are female.

There's a sizable faction of female gamers that don't mind the sexy aspect of Sci-Fi/Fantasy art though. Believe it or not, some of them actually like the idea of dressing somewhat provocatively, or at the very least in a way that accentuates their femininity.

There is also a portion of the male population that finds certain trends in female character design to be silly.

Which is fine.

But you don't speak for male gamers as a monolithic entity, and neither do those female gamers that are offended by breasts on armor speak for all other female gamers. Sci-Fi and fantasy have always had a bit of a "cheesecake" quality to it, if you're offended by that you might consider another hobby.

Melissia wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:where were all these girls when I was in high school? There was one that I remember and she was taken.

Probably trying to avoid the desperate young men looking for women like them.

Indeed.

I don't see the other marine lol... Plus, obviously, i don't get it...

Manchu wrote:

Reasonable Marine approves of this thead.

Thats actually a crimson fist *runs away*

Personally i like the current sisters of battle models, i just hate the fact they're metal and only have a handful of poses.


BUT i also wouldn't mind if they ended up looking like a female warrior in dragon age, where the only difference between the heaviest armor appearance between the sexes is just shoulder width. I'll go and look for a pic now

@gendoikar: ACTUALLY I think Reasonable Marine is a great argument in favor of current Sisters. Similarly, the Batmobile should not look like this:

Melissia wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:where were all these girls when I was in high school? There was one that I remember and she was taken.

Probably trying to avoid the desperate young men looking for women like them.

Touche'

As for the SOB dred, tell FW first, GW would probably find a way to put boobs on it

well it comes down to 2 things on weather they should be sexy or not..... camp a or camp b thinking.....
A. Its alla plot. the Emperer isnt dead he's kickin back in his bordello of goodness playin smack puppy with his harem o the bob cut babes. its only taken him till the year 40k to get the babe that flips his switch up to the proper numbers of clones. that dude in the golden throne? a mock up from Horrorclix. (in other words horray for Beasticles!!!!!)
B. its all a plot of slanessh.
(this is the camp for Boobs R bad)

either way im bowing out to watch a Leone Saint vid..

Ta.

Differentiating Ladies and Gents on a 28mm scale isn't probably the easiest thing to do. If GW want to make 'S&M Space Nuns' then they can do that, it's not that big of a deal. It's all just Metal and Plastic, and hasn't increased any level of misogynistic thoughts or feeling in me or anyone else I should imagine.

Monster Rain wrote:

Chongara wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Melissia wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:I bet the 40k fanbase is 99% male so whats the harm in trying to cater for their tastes?

People say the same thing about gaming, despite the fact that at least 40% of all gamers are female.

There's a sizable faction of female gamers that don't mind the sexy aspect of Sci-Fi/Fantasy art though. Believe it or not, some of them actually like the idea of dressing somewhat provocatively, or at the very least in a way that accentuates their femininity.

There is also a portion of the male population that finds certain trends in female character design to be silly.

Which is fine.

But you don't speak for male gamers as a monolithic entity, and neither do those female gamers that are offended by breasts on armor speak for all other female gamers. Sci-Fi and fantasy have always had a bit of a "cheesecake" quality to it, if you're offended by that you might consider another hobby.

It's not a matter of being offended. It's a matter of being annoyed. It's true that there are more female designs I dislike than ones I like. However that doesn't meant I want to throw away something I like as a whole. It simply means I'd be happy to see the elements of it I don't like move in a direction I'd like more (or at least have options for it present).

There are female designs I like out there in the world of gaming. A quick example:



Above are the "Judges" from the PS2 game Final Fantasy XII. It is obvious which one them is female. Without the need for giant breast-cups, or tons of skin bared. She doesn't look out of place with of her fellow judges. At the same time her design (as well as the designs of the males) aren't exactly super utilitarian, they're still fairly stylized. It isn't my favorite design but its a good example of something that I think is done "Right" I could find off hand.

Only one of these is female? The last three look pretty feminine to me, might be wrong on this one but the first two seem to have broader shoulders, and one has a codpiece. Which is a bit of a giveaway.

erm, i can't tell witch one is female, but I'm thinking the one on the far right?

In Final Fantasy terms, I'd much rather see:





etc...

Lord Harrab wrote:erm, i can't tell witch one is female, but I'm thinking the one on the far right?

Second from the right, a.k.a. "the one with the breasts."

No need for personal attacks.

Ihave to agree that spotting the female judge isn't that obvious. Clearly I have been trained by GW to look for oversized breasts.

Here's another example of a breastplate on a female knight which looks actually appropriate for a female knight instead of a prostitute.

Monster Rain wrote:

Chongara wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Chongara wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Melissia wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:I bet the 40k fanbase is 99% male so whats the harm in trying to cater for their tastes?

People say the same thing about gaming, despite the fact that at least 40% of all gamers are female.

There's a sizable faction of female gamers that don't mind the sexy aspect of Sci-Fi/Fantasy art though. Believe it or not, some of them actually like the idea of dressing somewhat provocatively, or at the very least in a way that accentuates their femininity.

There is also a portion of the male population that finds certain trends in female character design to be silly.

Which is fine.

But you don't speak for male gamers as a monolithic entity, and neither do those female gamers that are offended by breasts on armor speak for all other female gamers. Sci-Fi and fantasy have always had a bit of a "cheesecake" quality to it, if you're offended by that you might consider another hobby.

It's not a matter of being offended. It's a matter of being annoyed. It's true that there are more female designs I dislike than ones I like. However that doesn't meant I want to throw away something I like as a whole. It simply means I'd be happy to see the elements of it I don't like move in a direction I'd like more (or at least have options for it present).

There are female designs I like out there in the world of gaming. A quick example:



Above are the "Judges" from the PS2 game Final Fantasy XII. It is obvious which one them is female. Without the need for giant breast-cups, or tons of skin bared. She doesn't look out of place with of her fellow judges. At the same time her design (as well as the designs of the males) aren't exactly super utilitarian, they're still fairly stylized. It isn't my favorite design but its a good example of something that I think is done "Right" I could find off hand.

I'd rather look at that.

What can I say? We have different taste. I'm just saying I'd like a bit more that catered to mine, not only in 40k but in other areas of gaming and general "Nerd" stuff as well. I know for a fact your crowd certainly isn't lacking in offerings. I've certainly got money I'd be willing to spend on it, that I wouldn't on boob cup figures.

Compared to the rest of the female model range the sisters are quite sober and even manly (though some GW females models which were meant to look sexy look unintentionally manly too). I think the fact that they´re chaste holy warriors is well represented in that regard.

I support realism over nerdy sexist fetish anyday, but honestly I would be angry if someday they redo the eldar bandhees or any other eldar chick apart from Lelith without the boob armor. That would be just tasteless.

Melissia wrote:
Here's another example of a breastplate on a female knight which looks actually appropriate for a female knight instead of a prostitute.

Thats actually pretty good. Grimdarkify it and i'd have no problems with that being the new sisters of battle look.