Codex Witchhunters 5.1 - Wishlisting/Brainstorming for a better SoB codex

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**VikingScott**

Maybe a kind of super melta? think meltagun but alays 2d6 pen?

**AlexHolker**

VikingScott wrote:Perhaps a tank-shrine? Units within 6" gain stubborn?
And have it with a flamestorm cannon (S6 AP3)

I'm definitely a fan of tank shrines, it's just a question of how large a chassis you need.

VikingScott wrote:Prisoner unit.

The repentant heritics who didn't do a crime enough for arco-flallagation or interment into a penitent engine just get shoved towards the enemy.

So a fearless unit that aims to overwhelm the enemy?

That's not really a prisoner unit, just a different flavour of Frateris Militia/Zealots with a criminal record.

VikingScott wrote:MAybe have Arbites as a choice? Representing The Inquisitor recruiting local forces?

I'd definitely want to keep the Arbites in the new codex. As I said in the GK news thread, the Ordo Hereticus's use of Ministorum, Arbite and civilian troops is a nice way to distinguish them from the Ordo Malleus and their "in-house" military.

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:Hmm.... A line of doom I don't feel is too fluffy. A line of moral checks more so. All at the difference in LD.

We don't want to be like the SW's. Stupid Jaws.

Divine Pronouncement - 30 Points
Divine Pro is a psy power that is used instead of firing a weapon in the shooting phase. All enemy units within 3d6" of the inquisitor must take a morale check with a negative modifier equal to the difference between their highest LD value and the Inquisitor's LD. Failure means that the unit immediately goes to ground. This has no effect on Fearless units and Stubborn units do not take the modifier to LD.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
"KNEEL BEFORE THE EMPERAH'S MIGHT!"

**VikingScott**

AlexHolker wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Perhaps a tank-shrine? Units within 6" gain stubborn?
And have it with a flamestorm cannon (S6 AP3)

I'm definitely a fan of tank shrines, it's just a question of how large a chassis you need.

VikingScott wrote:Prisoner unit.

The repentant heritics who didn't do a crime enough for arco-flallagation or interment into a penitent engine just get shoved towards the enemy.

So a fearless unit that aims to overwhelm the enemy?

That's not really a prisoner unit, just a different flavour of Frateris Militia/Zealots with a criminal record.

VikingScott wrote:MAybe have Arbites as a choice? Representing The Inquisitor recruiting local forces?

I'd definitely want to keep the Arbites in the new codex. As I said in the GK news thread, the Ordo Hereticus's use of Ministorum, Arbite and civilian troops is a nice way to distinguish them from the Ordo Malleus and their "in-house" military.

I'm thinking for the tank shrine something in between a Rhino chasis and a LR chasis.

I see your pont about the Frateris Militia. I was thinking of Inq units rather than Eccelserriches. (Can't spell it. Don't want to look it up.)

Perhaps steal the Arbites from one of the many fandexes floating arround? I have three on my laptop.

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Inq retinue options:

Stick with the current 6 and add in more options or types?

Have bonuses stack. So with 3 warriors in the retinue you get +3WS.

**pretre**

I'm thinking for the tank shrine something in between a Rhino chasis and a LR chasis.

LRBT Chassis type armor?

I see your pont about the Frateris Militia. I was thinking of Inq units rather than Eccelserriches. (Can't spell it. Don't want to look it up.)

Make one entry for Inq ST / Arbites and make it obvious. have it like veterans/ST with chosen 'Doctrines'. IST doctrine gets 4+ armor and hellguns/hot shots. Arbites doctrine gets 5+ armor and shotguns/shields(extra CCW) with something else)

Inq retinue options:

Stick with the current 6 and add in more options or types?

Have bonuses stack. So with 3 warriors in the retinue you get +3WS.

That's pretty OTT, and I like it! WS7 Inquisitor, here I come!

Also, going off doctrines, go with one entry for Zealots/Redemptionists/Repentant Heretics/Militia and give them doctrine choices.
Zealots/Redemptionists: Negative modifiers are positive modifiers for them and they are faithful. Get -1 to BS.
Repentant Heretics: Stubborn, CCW/LP. Rage.
Frateris Militia: All models get frag and CCW/LasP, Shotgun or Lasgun. Get -1 to WS.

**VikingScott**

Consecreated weapons. PW that makes any inun save only pass on a 6?

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:Consecreated weapons. PW that makes any inun save only pass on a 6?

Meh, make it simple, Consecrated Weapons are normal and ignore Invul.

Make a Elite or FA choice Sisters unit that has CW and SS. Goes well with Divine Guidance.

**VikingScott**

Fits a paladin theme with sword and sheild. I think perhaps have it instead as a PW with +1S to help nullify s3 problems.

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:Fits a paladin theme with sword and sheild. I think perhaps have it instead as a PW with +1S to help nullify s3 problems.

Maybe just straight PW for the squad (remember hand of the Emp for +2 Str)and have the Consecrated one be a sergeant upgrade for +1S Ignores Save and Invul.

**AlexHolker**

Just so it's clear, I'm only going to add the concepts to the first post. At this stage, the specifics of the rules are less important than what you're trying to achieve.

pretre wrote:Arbites doctrine gets 5+ armor and shotguns/shields(extra CCW) with something else)

Arbites wear carapace armour, not flak.

New Vehicle upgrade:
Exterminator cartridges
Gives a vehicle a single-use weapon that hits an assaulting unit with a hand flamer (either using the template or one hit per soldier).

**VikingScott**

The sarrisa thing should either be relegated to fluff or be simplified. It is curently pretty useless too.

Retain Preists in the same way as now. (HQ but doens't take a slot.) but give them IC and EW.

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AlexHolker wrote:
New Vehicle upgrade:
Exterminator cartridges
Gives a vehicle a single-use weapon that hits an assaulting unit with a hand flamer (either using the template or one hit per soldier).

I like this. Fluff supported too.

Have exterminator cartridges as an upgrade a la master crafted. gives a one shot flamer.

**pretre**

AlexHolker wrote:Just so it's clear, I'm only going to add the concepts to the first post. At this stage, the specifics of the rules are less important than what you're trying to achieve.

That's cool too.

Arbites wear carapace armour, not flak.

4+ it is! Just leave it at 4+, Shotgun/Shield.

New Vehicle upgrade:
Exterminator cartridges
Gives a vehicle a single-use weapon that hits an assaulting unit with a hand flamer (either using the template or one hit per soldier).

How about for Tank Shock? This could replace the earlier thought re: siege shield.

**VikingScott**

Orbital strike should be added to an Inquisitor's rules like the chapter master for SMs (or perhaps as an option in their section?). ATM it just shows a lack of effort in the HS section.

**Melissia**

VikingScott wrote:Maybe a kind of super melta? think meltagun but alays 2d6 pen?

The solution I came up with for this was here.

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:The sarrisa thing should either be relegated to fluff or be simplified. It is curently pretty useless too.

Definitely useful now. I like the idea of giving it to celestians for free and removing the 'no acts of faith' rule. That would make celestians 3+ to hit (Holy Hatred) and re-roll wounds (Sarissas). That would be pretty nice. Plus it would make them good at Divine Guidance but at a cost (you could re-roll all your wounds to try to get more 6's but might miss more too.)

**VikingScott**

pretre wrote:
Arbites wear carapace armour, not flak.
4+ it is! Just leave it at 4+, Shotgun/Shield.

Arbites are typiclly armed with either: Shotguns with exterminator shells (homing shotgun shells), Shock Maul and suppression shield (Crusader henchman has a suppression shield in the current dex. It grants a 4++) or a boltgun.

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:Orbital strike should be added to an Inquisitor's rules like the chapter master for SMs (or perhaps as an option in their section?). ATM it just shows a lack of effort in the HS section.

Maybe paid upgrade? Definitely not a HS choice though.

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Melissia wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Maybe a kind of super melta? think meltagun but alays 2d6 pen?
The solution I came up with for this was:
"Inferno Lance"
R24", S8 AP2, Heavy 1 Lance, Melta
Replacement weapon for Exorcists

A recently developed weapon, formerly used exclusively by the Mechanicus. The Ecclesiarchy, on the urging of the Sisters of Battle, purchased the rights to participate in the live fire testing of this weapon through various political maneuverings. The weapon is an enhanced form of multi-melta, a far more condensed beam which is comparable to a long-ranged cutting torch. Its range is not increased over the multi-melta, but its ability to cut through armor is-- it ALMOST replicates the Lance design used by the Eldar... though the Eldar would consider it unwieldly, remarkably primitive, and somewhat inefficient-- for extended battles, the vehicles that use it often have to be supported by Rhinos converted into ammunition carriers.

Short range super Multi-Melta. It could work.

**VikingScott**

Melissia wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Maybe a kind of super melta? think meltagun but alays 2d6 pen?
The solution I came up with for this was here.

Melissia (in the thread linked) wrote:"Inferno Lance"
R24", S8 AP2, Heavy 1 Lance, Melta
Replacement weapon for Exorcists

A recently developed weapon, formerly used exclusively by the Mechanicus. The Ecclesiarchy, on the urging of the Sisters of Battle, purchased the rights to participate in the live fire testing of this weapon through various political maneuverings. The weapon is an enhanced form of multi-melta, a far more condensed beam which is comparable to a long-ranged cutting torch. Its range is not increased over the multi-melta, but its ability to cut through armor is-- it ALMOST replicates the Lance design used by the Eldar... though the Eldar would consider it unwieldly, remarkably primitive, and somewhat inefficient-- for extended battles, the vehicles that use it often have to be supported by Rhinos converted into ammunition carriers.

Note, I think this is roughly balanced... half the range of the Exorcist Missile Launcher, and only a single shot instead of D6, in exchange for hitting much harder.

I like this idea. Thanks for the link Melissia.

Also excuse my poor spelling in the super melta quote.

Damn ninja'd

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:
pretre wrote:
Arbites wear carapace armour, not flak.
4+ it is! Just leave it at 4+, Shotgun/Shield.

Arbites are typiclly armed with either: Shotguns with exterminator shells (homing shotgun shells), Shock Maul and suppression shield (Crusader henchman has a suppression shield in the current dex. It grants a 4++) or a boltgun.

Trying not to make them too uber.

Okay, going back to doctrine:

Arbites: 4+ armor and choice of Shotgun, Shock Maul(CCW)/Suppression Shield (CCW, 4++), Boltgun.

**Melissia**

Arbites do wear carapace, by the way, according to Dark Heresy . There's at least two sets of carapace named after Arbites ranks. Stormtrooper carapace is slightly better, but not enough to warrant a difference in stats in TT.

**VikingScott**

Seems good that arbites part.

Now I'm out of ideas for the moment. I'm going to go back on this thread and pick out bits to flesh out.

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Penitent Witches.
Can discharge pyschic attacks (like a lighning rod for psychic powers) and have some of its own. Maybe just mind lighning but possibly one called "The truth" which forces a morale check?

**pretre**

Acts of Faith:

Keep Hand of the Emperor and The Passion
Keep Light

Remove Shield
Add "Only in Death does Duty End" - Roll over unit size. Go back to the 4+ standup from 3rd edition.

Remove Martyrdom special rule.
Add additional faith generators. Maybe similar to pain points for DE. Hmm. Character kills another character +1 faith?

**VikingScott**

Death cult assassins ds in like lictors. Represent them trying to assassinate enemy higher-ups.
Charge on reveal?

ATM they have to foot slog accross the board.

**pretre**

VikingScott wrote:Death cult assassins ds in like lictors. Represent them trying to assassinate enemy higher-ups.
Charge on reveal?

ATM they have to foot slog accross the board.

They can infiltrate too. I like the lictor idea though. And make sure they have the Lone Wolf KP rule. They are trying to die, after all.

**AlexHolker**

VikingScott wrote:Penitent Witches.
Can discharge pyschic attacks (like a lighning rod for psychic powers) and have some of its own. Maybe just mind lighning but possibly one called "The truth" which forces a morale check?

I really don't like this idea. Non-psychic penitents aren't much of a danger, as long as you have an explosive leash in case they try to get into flamer range of your own lines. Untrained psykers of any sort are too dangerous: they've got the weapons of their minds they could turn against you, and they're liable to get possessed by daemons from the Warp.

**Frazzled**

Emperor titans! Whats more appropriate for the ultimate loyalist believers in the emperor than the Admech's physical representation of his greatness?

I mean its not like they're riding into battle on wolves or dropping landraiders from 20,000 feet...

**pretre**

AlexHolker wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Penitent Witches.
Can discharge pyschic attacks (like a lighning rod for psychic powers) and have some of its own. Maybe just mind lighning but possibly one called "The truth" which forces a morale check?

I really don't like this idea. Non-psychic penitents aren't much of a danger, as long as you have an explosive leash in case they try to get into flamer range of your own lines. Untrained psykers of any sort are too dangerous: they've got the weapons of their minds they could turn against you, and they're liable to get possessed by daemons from the Warp.

We are kind of the Ordo Hereticus. We kills heretics dead. Now if we had some sort of Penitent Witch blender that you put PW into and out came some sort of vortex of pain, that would be a good idea.

**Melissia**

pretre wrote:Remove Shield

There is no reason to remove Spirit of the Martyr, if that is what you are referring to.

**pretre**

Melissia wrote:
pretre wrote:Remove Shield
There is no reason to remove Spirit of the Martyr, if that is what you are referring to.

Again, want to add rather than just refuting everything other people post?

I chose to remove Spirit because I liked the idea of standing back up from a mortal wound better than just shrugging it off.

What is your proposal?

**Melissia**

pretre wrote:What is your proposal?

...

Melissia wrote:There is no reason to remove Spirit of the Martyr, if that is what you are referring to.

My proposal is, obviously, to keep Spirit of the Martyr in as it is, unchanged save for possibly having it be a simple LD check as I mentioned earlier.