Deep striking open topped, skimmer, fast transports.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

ToBeWilly wrote:
michelj wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you not risk the mishap table because raiders are vehicles and everything just gets out of their way? Or is that a special rule for drop pods?

It seems silly to me that if an open topped vehicle moves at cruising speed and the passengers stay on board, they cannot shoot, but if an open topped vehicle moves at cruising speed and the passengers disembark, they can shoot... and assault. So apparently, shooting from a vehicle moving at cruising speed is too difficult for the denizens of the 41st millennium, but if they decide to jump off and assault as well, it somehow makes shooting possible. I guess it makes sense, since once they are off the vehicle its easier for them to aim, but it still always seemed weird to me...
-Jeff

IIRC, you can fire one main weapon and all defensive weapons when moving at cruising speed. So, as long as the embarked passengers weapons are S 4 or less, they can shoot. And, open-topped vehicles dont have fire points, so everybody can shoot. So, a Deep Striking Raider can shoot its Dark Lance, and all passengers with Splinter Rifles/Cannons can shoot as well.

I think.

Embarked passengers can't shoot when the vehicle moves 12

**Leo_the_Rat**

page 66 of the BRB says that passengers in a vehicle may not fire if the vehicle moves at cruising speed. So no, even if the passengers' weapons are strength 4 or less they may not fire.

**nosferatu1001**

Incorrect. as has been pointed out the rules for firing from a vehicle disallow firing if you have moved over 6". There is NO special exemption for fast vehicles, the same rules for passengers applies.

In addition the rules for defensive / main are for the VEHICLE only, remember the embarked unit are seperate.

**ToBeWilly**

A Raider is fast, so moving 12" it can still fire one main weapon and all defencive. Right?

Edit: I think embarked units count as part of the vehicle.

**Leo_the_Rat**

according to page 73, yes.

**Sigmatron**

Passengers may never shoot if the vehicle moved at cruising speed. They would have to disembark to shoot after a deepstrike/7+ inch move in order to shoot.

edit= late post lol.

**Rurouni Benshin**

ToBeWilly wrote:
IIRC, you can fire one main weapon and all defensive weapons when moving at cruising speed. So, as long as the embarked passengers weapons are S 4 or less, they can shoot. And, open-topped vehicles dont have fire points, so everybody can shoot. So, a Deep Striking Raider can shoot its Dark Lance, and all passengers with Splinter Rifles/Cannons can shoot as well.

I think.

You're right about Fast Vehicles being able to fire Defensive Weapons after moving at Cruising Speed. Only problem with your example is that the passengers don't count as Defensive Weapons themselves. It says specifically in the BRB (pg 66, 3rd paragraph under "Fire Points"), that models can't fire from a vehicle that moved at Cruising speed that turn.

However, there's nothing stopping them from getting out and shooting. And like any Open-topped vehicle, the passengers can disembark, shoot, and assault all on the same turn as well.

**Sigmatron**

They can get out and shoot after deep striking, but may not assault on the same turn due to the Deep Strike rules.

**nosferatu1001**

Rurouni - actually there IS something stopping them getting out - DE Raiders that take the DS upgrade CANNOT disembark passengers. Weirdly however if you take the Duke he doesnt add that restriction in...

**ToBeWilly**

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
ToBeWilly wrote:
IIRC, you can fire one main weapon and all defensive weapons when moving at cruising speed. So, as long as the embarked passengers weapons are S 4 or less, they can shoot. And, open-topped vehicles dont have fire points, so everybody can shoot. So, a Deep Striking Raider can shoot its Dark Lance, and all passengers with Splinter Rifles/Cannons can shoot as well.

I think.

You're right about Fast Vehicles being able to fire Defensive Weapons after moving at Cruising Speed. Only problem with your example is that the passengers don't count as Defensive Weapons themselves. It says specifically in the BRB (pg 66, 3rd paragraph under "Fire Points"), that models can't fire from a vehicle that moved at Cruising speed that turn.

However, there's nothing stopping them from getting out and shooting. And like any Open-topped vehicle, the passengers can disembark, shoot, and assault all on the same turn as well.

It also says in the BRB (pg 70, 1st sentence under "Open-Topped Transport Vehicles"), "Open-topped vehicles do not have specific fire points."

Also (pg 70, 3rd paragraph under "Fast Vehicles Firing"), "Fast vehicles that move at cruising speed may fire a single weapon (plus all defensive weapons, just like other types of vehicle moving at combat speed)."

How I understand that to work is, Fast vehicle moving at cruising speed = vehicle moving at combat speed. So, in my example, I think I'm still correct.

**puma713**

ToBeWilly wrote:

How I understand that to work is, Fast vehicle moving at cruising speed = vehicle moving at combat speed. So, in my example, I think I'm still correct.

You're leaving out a very crucial qualifier, "as if". "A fast vehicle may fire as if moving at combat speed" is not the same thing as moving at combat speed.

The fast vehicle still moved at cruising speed (for passenger restrictions), but may fire weapons as if it moved at combat speed.

Passengers aren't weapons. They're passengers. They still cannot fire.

**nosferatu1001**

As above.

The vehicle itself counts as one speed lower for firing, however nothing states that the "passengers" count the vehicle as moving one speed grade lower. So the passengers are still in a vehicle that has moved at cruising speed - and therefore may not fire.

**Rurouni Benshin**

Thank you all for helping me clarify my last comment...

And as for the DE Raiders.... "Wow", is the only word that comes to mind... Didn't realize that they actually went out of their way to hamper Infantry while Deep Striking...