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I'm thinking of maybe limiting it further to having a maximum of 2 of them in the whole army, instead of the current max with that profile of 6. Opinions?

hmmm i like all the rules of the original BUT add in the weapon options of the most recent one for X amount of points and every thing should be cheery

@Mattieau & balthydes:

I see you're points, I do. The ability to pick out models in a squad I would say is an ok thing to add. The Stealth special rule is eluding me at the moment. I can't recall what it is and my rule book is back home. (I'm currently serving in Iraq at the moment) But I don't think it should make him to OP with the Stealth rule.

I think the main reason why I didn't pick the ability to pick out units, is because you're probably not going to be sending an Assassin after normal infantry grunts. You're going to be sending him after very specialized units, ie. Special Characters, other Elite Squads.

And if you take 2, you can have them pick apart a squad with 2 kills a turn. Could also edit the "Designated Target" special rule to say that if you have 2, you can have them both pick the same unit if you like and then if the unit is killed by them they achieve the kill point bonus.

The reason the sniper rifle is more powerful, but limited on it's shots is because I see the Assassin as a 1 shot 1 kill warrior. Again this is just my idea.

If you like you can add the extra "Stealth" and "Selected Target" special rules to the character. uhm, just bump him up to 55~60 pts per model so 110-120 pts for 2 models.

Let me know what you think.


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Mattieau wrote:I'm thinking of maybe limiting it further to having a maximum of 2 of them in the whole army, instead of the current max with that profile of 6. Opinions?

Mine is limited to 0-1 which means only 1 squad in the Army list possible, with there only being 1-2 in the squad.

Stealth adds +1 to your cover save. Making a 5+ cover save become 4+, etc. Master of Stealth adds +2 instead.


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Fexor wrote:
Mine is limited to 0-1 which means only 1 squad in the Army list possible, with there only being 1-2 in the squad.

Never mind then. I misread your profile. Thats an entirely good number then.

hmmm...well that was part of the balance for unit, his 5+ save is his balance. Since he's always in stealth already because of his Chameleon Cloak, he really shouldn't get targeted that much and I did drop his sight range from 2d6 x 2 to 3d6 which gives him a little more survivability. Just my thoughts, but if you like the Stealth rules it's fine, the other one is to much and would make him to hard to kill.

You have a fair point. I'll probably use the profile you came up with, with some minor tweaks of course. Should i have the assassin rifle be a paid upgrade from a ranger long rifle or have him start with the assassin rifle?

Start with it, I can't remember who said it, but he's right an Assassin would always have all of his equipment from the start and wouldn't upgrade, he would have all of his tools at the beginning. (just my thoughts and I agree with him)


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But yeah, by all means, if you want to use the profile I made with some tweaks/modifications, by all means go for it. That's why I posted it.

A friend's opinion is that it's a steal for 45 points and should be at least 80. And that the rifle shouldn't be strength 9, because a sniper should never be able to glance a land raider. And on the designated target rule: 1) If you target an IC, and then he joins a squad, you'll have to pick through the whole squad. and 2) If another unit takes out the designated target, you'll be screwed because it wasnt the assassin's kill.

Well, like I said above, if you add the Stealth and being able to pick out individual targets in a squad, the price goes up to say 65 pts each model, but your right if you can pick out individual units with his abilities and weapons, 70-80 sounds a bit better since you can take 2.

What about the strength 9 issue. Or the designated target issue. I originally had it as if it was dead at the end, but someone pointed out that you could just pummel it with artillery then.

Maybe it could just be if the target unit is alive at the end, kill points are awarded to that player, as opposed to, if it's not killed by the assassin.

Well the Str 9 and AP 2, is to make the weapon what it's really good at crushing infantry and making it near impossible to survive except for special characters.

Like I said before, you're not really going to be taking an Assassin into a battlefield to kill a whole Squad of Tacticals. You're going to use him to kill Leaders and Special Characters.

We could tweak the "Designated Target" rule a bit and say that the target has to be a IC/Special Character/HQ, and that if he joins a squad the Assassin has the ability to pick him out of the Squad and allocate his wounds to that specific model and not the rest of the squad. Which means he only needs to kill that IC/Special Character/HQ and not the whole squad to achieve his mission.

This works for his Fluff and since every Army has to have an HQ choice you're almost guaranteed to have a target to pick. In the case of picking a whole squad as an HQ choice, can't think of any right now, but if there is, then you're kind of screwed to taking out the entire squad. That's just the one choice that will be against you, but it has to be that way as it's the Assassin's special mission in KP games.

If you need me to clarify anything let me know and I will.

but pretty much it’s a steal for 45 points, should be at least 80. I realise its fragile, but it also never has to put its self in harms way. Str 9 is redundant, put it to wound on a 3+, snipers aren’t men to be able to glance land raiders, no matter how strong. Not to mention instant deathing heavy infantry with a snipe is lame. Maybe instant death on a 6 to wound.

That's pretty much what he said.

hmm...ok
could change it to the following:

Assassin's Sniper Rifle: Str: X AP: 3 Range: 36" Heavy 2, Sniper Rifle

Special Rules: Assassin's Specialty Ammo - The ammo in these high powered rifles is specifically designed for taking out infantry targets. Against any Infantry model this weapon wounds on a 3+ .


The reason it was so powerful and could insta-kill a heavy infantry was because it was 1 shot per turn. And we didn't have the ability to pick out a character, so you would need to be able to take down the squad if the character was in one, but now that you can and the powers reduced he now has more shots to even him out.

Perhaps
WS8
BS8
S4
T3
W2
I8
A3
LD10
SV5+/5++

The Sniper Rifle could be: R36" Str 4 (Poisoned 3+) AP 5, Heavy 1, Rending, Killing Blow (Whenever this model rolls a 6 to wound, a model wounded by this weapon will take D6 wounds instead, D3 if it is a MC)

Rules: Fleet of Foot, Move Through Cover
Independent Character
Stealth
Infiltrate; Scout
Offensive Grenades
If this model charges out of cover it strikes at I10

Fexor: I didn't say i agreed with him, just said that's what his comments were. I thought it was fine, but those were his comments when i asked if he would play against it.

Yeah, oh no it's fine man. I'm not upset at all. I'm just trying to find something fun for you to play with that isn't going to be over-powered, but still not to under-powered where he's going to be worthless and not worth his points value.

I have no issues, going back and forth till we tweak him to something you're happy with and other's will actually game against with you.

I have to say i disagree with my friend. Even though he has a lot of special rules and a powerful weapon, he is exceedingly fragile, toughness three, only a 5+ armour save, and if you get close enough to charge him, he's practically dead, not to mention any strength 6 weapons will take him out quickly.

True, but his Shroud and Superman Speed + Hit and Run allow him to evade units and get out of dodge if he gets into trouble.

I compare his sniper rifle to a Barret .50 Cal, which can take out lightly armored tanks. The only difference is the bullets are designed to rip apart Infantry not vehicles, so it doesn't have the penetration to do dmg to vehicles.

Could make it Str: 7 AP: 2 Range: 36" Heavy 2, Sniper Rifle

This would take off the glancing only, allowing him to take out light vehicles but still not powerful enough to do much to AV14 vehicles.

What do you think?

If you're worried about him doing too much damage on tanks, why not just make him cause instant death?

You could do that, but I don't know. Not a big fan or just outright killing anything with one shot. I like that IC/Special Characters/HQ will have a chance to save against it and will have to take more then 1 shot to bring down, which makes the character not to overpowered. Plus I don't mind it shaking a Land Raider to be honest.


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I'm just giving tweaks so that his friend wouldn't think it to much to play against in a friendly game. That's all, trying to find a middle ground, but I do like my original incarnation to be honest.

Strength 7, ap2, heavy 2 could work, i'll ask him about it. I liked it originally, but that hardly matters if no-one is willing to play against me.

Aye, that is very true, which is why I'm trying to find an alternative, that still sticks to my original concept but that will be more accepted to be played against.

I'd play against it....in all itz forms....

He says he likes the new profile better, but doesnt see how an anti infantry rifle can wreck a vehicle.

I've just thought of it now, and it actually seems obvious but i don't think anyone else has suggested this rule:

Superior Marksman: The assassin has the ability to specifically target one member of a squad, he can elect to fire all at his shots at one member of a squad, this may be a normal model, or an IC. Wounds caused do not carry over to other models if the assassin elects to shoot like this. In addition no cover saves are allowed agaisnt shots from the assassin.

That could work. It makes it so that the assassin cant wipe out the whole squad, but can pick off anyone he needs to.

@Eldar Own: That's pretty good actually, for the dealing with the target being attached to a Squad. I like it and it's simple and effective and fits the fluff for the Assassin. I approve.

@Mattieau: The rifle itself is not an anti-infantry gun, the specialized round is, you're friend I guess didn't understand what I meant. Uhm his rifle is like a Barret .50 Cal sniper rifle, if you haven't seen one, try google'ing it and looking at the pictures, it's a BIG rifle and in today's war's can easily penetrate enough armor to handle most light armored vehicles. Just with the normal round, I know we (the Army) uses it to destroy vehicle engines and bring a vehicle to a stop using the standard ammo. Now, use Armor defeating rounds in the Barret .50 Cal and you have a very good long range light armored vehicle stopping cannon that is carried and operated by 1 man, it's exceedingly lethal.

Now fast forward 40k years into the future, you could easily (especially with Eldar tech) make a rifle infinitely more powerful then todays current big bore rifles that could easily penetrate vehicles, only your Assassin's roll is to take out specific infantry threats not vehicle threats so he's not equipped with the ammo to do that, but the rifles power itself is enough to shake a heavy vehicle, and you can't destroy a vehicle off of crew shaken results only, as far as I can remember. As for the lighter vehicles and open-topped speeders the sheer power of the weapon is more then capable of penetrating it, just out of shear power, despite the fact that the ammo isn't designed for it.

That was my only intent with the weapon.

If you want to explain why an Eldar sniper rifle can destroy a tank, just argue that it's loaded with anti-matter munitions. It's a gravitic accelerator so I doubt the compound in the bullet matters, just the shape of it.

Fexor wrote:You could do that, but I don't know. Not a big fan or just outright killing anything with one shot. I like that IC/Special Characters/HQ will have a chance to save against it and will have to take more then 1 shot to bring down, which makes the character not to overpowered. Plus I don't mind it shaking a Land Raider to be honest.


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I'm just giving tweaks so that his friend wouldn't think it to much to play against in a friendly game. That's all, trying to find a middle ground, but I do like my original incarnation to be honest.

It takes S8 to shake a Land Raider with a normal shot, that's going to instant-death nearly all Space Marines and weaker, except for certain characters such as some of the blud angels of blud. Don't forget that all Sniper USR-marked weapons are also rending! Oh, and there's a lot of characters with Eternal Warrior rule, the only glitch in the suspense of disbelief would be MCs.

Mahtamori wrote:If you want to explain why an Eldar sniper rifle can destroy a tank, just argue that it's loaded with anti-matter munitions. It's a gravitic accelerator so I doubt the compound in the bullet matters, just the shape of it.

Fexor wrote:You could do that, but I don't know. Not a big fan or just outright killing anything with one shot. I like that IC/Special Characters/HQ will have a chance to save against it and will have to take more then 1 shot to bring down, which makes the character not to overpowered. Plus I don't mind it shaking a Land Raider to be honest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm just giving tweaks so that his friend wouldn't think it to much to play against in a friendly game. That's all, trying to find a middle ground, but I do like my original incarnation to be honest.

It takes S8 to shake a Land Raider with a normal shot, that's going to instant-death nearly all Space Marines and weaker, except for certain characters such as some of the blud angels of blud. Don't forget that all Sniper USR-marked weapons are also rending! Oh, and there's a lot of characters with Eternal Warrior rule, the only glitch in the suspense of disbelief would be MCs.

This is true, however there's a severe limitation, it was originally, Str: 9 AP: 2 Range 36" Sniper, Heavy 1, Glance Only. As I'm sure you can tell, you have 6 shots in a normal game to kill the target with 1 model. IF you bumped it up to 2 models, that gives you 12 possible shots, now if the IC/Special Character/HQ joined a squad, you might actually need the second Assassin to be able to smack down the entire squad to be able to kill the chosen target. Since in my original idea he was unable to pick out targets from the squad like he is now. So yes, being able to 1 shot kill a normal tactical marine would be needed because he doesn't have but 6 shots in 1 game, that's not a lot, especially if he misses. (ie. bad rolling) It's another reason why I didn't add any modifiers for him to hit on 3+ all the time in the original concept, so that the chance of missing was still an option. Since not everyone, even Assassin's, are 100% accurate ALL the time.

Anywho, it's cool and I'm good with rolling with changes and updates. Just giving the reasons behind the choices I made.

if i were to use something like this character, I'd put 1 on anti-IC's and the other on dreadnoughts or their equivalants....i hate going against a dread...especially venerable ones...