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nosferatu1001 wrote:The reason people are saying they are destroyed is, in the other circumstance where you MUST deploy and cannot, you are destroyed (vehicle - wrecked result)

... Must be deployed, as normal ... normal rules for deploying include the rule that they do not deploy if there is no space to deploy. Since the “Must deploy” is qualified with as normal, it follows that the normal rules for deploying take precedence and they don’t. Also as I've pointed out before they are only destroyed on a wrecked result; a destroyed result they're fine, any other result also they're fine. There is a big difference about not being able to get out of a burning vehicle and one that isn’t; mainly in a burning one you will burn to death.

Or, as normal merely means within 2" and treating the pod as an opentoipped vehicle...................... To me, the key words are "must deploy". They must get out, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'll agree that the rules actually do not cover what happens if they're unable to be placed, but we do have the vehicle-destroyed result that we can use as a precedent to this question. bottom line, no matter what, you're going to have to house rule it, so add this one to your list of pregame stuff.

don_mondo wrote:Or, as normal merely means within 2" and treating the pod as an opentoipped vehicle...................... To me, the key words are "must deploy". They must get out, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'll agree that the rules actually do not cover what happens if they're unable to be placed, but we do have the vehicle-destroyed result that we can use as a precedent to this question. bottom line, no matter what, you're going to have to house rule it, so add this one to your list of pregame stuff.

There's no point in including as normal if not to point out they might not be able to get out. Still there are three options ... Destroyed, Wait Inside or Mishap Table.

Destroyed is way to harsh; Waiting seems fair to me (as explained above); Mishap because not all the models could be deployed. Mishap does opens a can of worms on things like is the unit deep striking, does the transport also return, If they do they DS on there own ... door falls off on the way down, SM land near by , assuming they roll ok on the mishap table otherwise they become a crater.

I disagree with destroyed being too harsh. The player has to intentionally place the unit in a position for this result. It's like tankshocking into the middle of a huge mob, hoping enough will run so that you can disembark without the vehicle being surrounded. You pays your money and takes your chances. Since the player can choose where to start the initial placement of the pod, it's totally up to him as to whether or not this is an issue. The pod was not meant to be a bunker that you can land in the middle of the enemy army and shoot out of. That's why they included lines like must disembark and the restriction on anyone getting back in.

Really? you only stay still 1/3 of the time and you can scatter up to 12" (jamming beacon 4D6 so it could be 24" off target). Drop pods may also mishap (off the board) and could be placed by the enemy on a 3-4 (I know i would place them in the worst possible spot). Not to mention there are times when the board is getting rather full and you think you'll try and fit them in there, pod scatters a bit and you've got no room to place your unit in coherency.

Not sure what your point is in the last post. Sure, bad things can happen when the dice go against you. So waht? It's part of the game.

Bottom line, to me the overriding part of the rule is "must disembark", with the as normal meaning you cannot disembark 20" away, etc etc. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

don_mondo wrote:Not sure what your point is in the last post. Sure, bad things can happen when the dice go against you. So waht? It's part of the game.

Bottom line, to me the overriding part of the rule is "must disembark", with the as normal meaning you cannot disembark 20" away, etc etc. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Point to my last post was simply to put that its not always the players fault that they'd be unable to get out. Also that Destroying the unit that could not disembark, is backed up by no rules and is much harsher then 2/3 of the DS mishap table.

And the "must disembark" is "must disembark, as normal" and normal disembarking states that if there are models that cannot be placed they do not disembark. Nothing in “must disembark” over rules the normal rules for disembarking which state you don't if you can't.

Sure, not always their fault. So? As I said earlier, you pays your money and you takes your chances. You want to gamble, you have to be willing that it might fail. Pods are already low risk enough as it is, I don't mind if they have a chance of going off the table and suffering a mishap. And if I drop one in the middle of my opponent's army, well, the results are my own fault.

And again, I disagree on your reading of "as normal"> IMO, must disembark takes precedence and all that "as normal" means is that they don't get any funky rules for disembarking, but they "MUST" disembark.

So, are you now ready to agree to disagree?

don_mondo wrote:So, are you now ready to agree to disagree?

er no, even ignoring (as you are) the "as normal" there still isn't any reason given that they should be destroyed. Even if you don't agree that they should by RAW stay inside (using the normal rules for disembarking) the nearest other rule is Mishap. Yes that to could cause them to be destroyed (and their transport) but only on a 1-2 result.

The closest other rule is the wrecked result, which tells you that any model that cannot disembark when they MUST disembark is destroyed.

Mishap is not at ALL close.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The closest other rule is the wrecked result, which tells you that any model that cannot disembark when they MUST disembark is destroyed.

Mishap is not at ALL close.

Really when did the drop pod become a wreck? Oh wait it hasn't. What your saying is we should copy a different rule where there is no longer a transport to be in (mainly because it has been destroyed) simply because in both rules it says "must disembark"?

If we're going to ignore the "as normal" we should pick a closer rule ... is there anything writen in the Deep striking rules as to what happens if a model that is deep striking cannot be placed? There you go mishap, only one rule broken (and that is disembarking as normal)

Huh? Both require you to break a rule. In both cases you MUST disembark from the vehicle - at the time you disembark in a wreck the vehicle is still there.

It is MUCH closer to that than a DS mishap - the models inside arent the ones DS'ing, for a start...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Huh? Both require you to break a rule. In both cases you MUST disembark from the vehicle - at the time you disembark in a wreck the vehicle is still there.

It is MUCH closer to that than a DS mishap - the models inside arent the ones DS'ing, for a start...

? "In the movement phase when they arrive, these units may move no further, other than to disembark from deep striking transport vehicle" ....

Any way last time this came up nether of you voiced an opinion. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/257489.page

... As then my view is still that as normal the model does not disembark, as that is part of the rules for disembarking.

Yet they must.

That line does not say THEY are the ones deepstriking. They arent, as disembarking into difficult terrain would make them take a dangerous terrain test.

Lastly: not saying anything or not last time is fairly irrelevant. You have not come up with a reason why a non-DSing unit should roll ont he mishap table, whereas ANOTHER situation where you MUST disembark but cannot is far more analogous.

Not that i care about DS but the unit did DS or they would not be able to disembark; as you cannot disembark from a vehicels that moves "flat out". The only reason they can disembark is because "In the movement phase when they arrive, these units may move no further, other than to disembark from deep striking transport vehicle" and they arrived from reserve via DS

Any way I stand by what i said last time. I see no reason they can't be forced to stay in the drop pod till they can leave.
Put it another way ...
... we have a transport ...
... we also have a burning wreck ...
... which of these things is going to kill the them? The burning wreck. Spacemarine will sit it out the pod till there is no pod or they can disembark. (in which case they immediately disembark, as normal)

The vehicle deepstruck, the UNIT did not.

They arrived from reserve EMBARKED in a vehicle.

ya know, I've been looking at this for a while now, and I honestly cannot come up with a solution....this is troubling to me....I will discuss this with 1 of my colleagues tomorrow, and I will try and have some type of input when I return...(this truly is troubling for me......ugh)

That's cause it truly is not covered in the rules, as nothing specifically spells out what happens to the unit if it is unable to disembark. Just as nothing spells out what happens if a unit is unable to enter from Reserves. Get used to it, there are lots of little gaps like this all throughout the rules.

I'd Still say destroyed, how we play it at least ... tends to happen once every couple of weeks.
You have to disembark after all RAW
So what do you do if you cannot??
ignore the rule and stay in it?
Or destroy the unit beings they cannot get out

yes, I believe you are destroyed.