Help a n00b, csm :)

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**Peter Wiggin**

Oblit built from the bitz box. WIP clearly, not ready to even think about priming yet. Better than the metal ones IMO.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Not everyone is as awesome with the knife and putty or as crazy about conversions as you agroszkiewicz

**Peter Wiggin**

I'm thinking about building and selling ridiculously weaponized Oblits now that I've got the technique and proportions down. Provided I could put a halfway decent finish on the GS, what do you guys think?

Don't them boyz sell for like 15 bones for the silly looking metal ones?

**MechaEmperor7000**

I actually like the metal ones. *owns 6 of them*

>.>

<.<

Although I would totally buy those if you put them up for a reasonable price.

**Peter Wiggin**

The metal ones look a bit like a pile of guns and armor held together by liquified flesh. Which is rockin for some aspects of chaos, personally I think more along the Iron Warriors line when I picture an Oblit. Matter of personal style though, got knows the metal ones look great in a Nurgle army!!

I'd hazard to say that CSM are still competitive, not to mention alot of fun for a starting gamer. I've been in and out of 40k for 16 years and ALWAYS gravitate back to chaos. Listen to the folks that have spoken on the usefulness of Rhino's. Nurgle marines = great for objective holding. <shrug> Not really an avid player myself though.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I have never won a game with Chaos (except once with Berserkers against tau in a Combat Patrol, but it's really not that fair to compare) but it's damn fun to play. Watching the opponent curse his 5+ to wound my basic trooper his hilarious (or 6 if he happens to use guard or get into CC with his Eldar).

**nosferatu1001**

I run:

1xDP, wings, MOK (140)
1xDP, wings (130)

3x 8 Bezerkers, powerfist champion, rhino with havoc launcher @ 258 each

3x 2 Oblits

I regularly win games with it, mainly because I have enough bezerkers to beat face, dont ever run away (everything is fearless) and my DPs are fast enoguh to force peoples attention onto them, and not the rhinos (most of the time.....) which are the real achilles heel of my force. The DPs in mine, unlike a slaanesh Lash list, are entirely disposable assets - they beat face if they can, but normallly require a fairly large proportion of your enemies fire to take down. You can normally DS an oblit pair or two if you need longer reach, and who doesnt like TL-melta guns to the rear?

WHile Bezerkers dont hold objectives as well as PMs, they DO beat face in combat (WS5, furious charge for S5 I5 on the charge) - especially MEQ / TEQ, as they can force enough saves to dent elite forces.

In case you're wondering - for fluff reasons ONLY do i run 8 zerkers. Each god has a sacred number (6 for Slaanesh, 7 for NUrgle, 8 for Khorne and 9 for Tzeentch) that, in the old codex, got you benefits. It does nothing in this, but some minor fluff bunnies like me like to run them!

**zionarbadon**

What exactly is DP? How does it work? I've seen it mentioned a ton.

**FITZZ**

zionarbadon wrote:What exactly is DP? How does it work? I've seen it mentioned a ton.

DP=Daemon Prince,an HQ choice...currently the best HQ choice available (IMO).

**zionarbadon**

Oh yeah, duh xD.

I plan on buying one of those. And some Rhinos. I haven't received any of my plague marines yet in the mail but my fiance just painted her first blood angel (what she will be playing). I can't wait to paint some plagues

**MechaEmperor7000**

If you want a Khorne HQ, skip the DP and go with Kharn. He basically has the stats of a DP, but in a fun-sized Independant Character model (meaning you can stick him in a rhino with another squad). He also brings more attacks, hits better and actually has a ranged weapon. A Khorne DP with wings will just fly in and get slaughtered due to being singled out and having only 4 wounds.

**nosferatu1001**

Whereas Kharn is T4 and has no Eternal Warrior. He dies to pretty much the first powerfist that hits him.

**MechaEmperor7000**

He has Initiative and strength 6 on the charge, 7 attacks that hit on a 2+, 2D6 pen, and Power weapon attacks. He's also only 25 points more than a Winged Khorne Prince and is immune to psychic powers entirely, has frag grenades and can summon Daemons near him, on top of not being able to be picked out from a squad by shooting. DPs on the other hand will likely attract alot of small-arms fire and maybe one or two lascannons to the face. Khorne princes are not gonna survive the run.

**zionarbadon**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:If you want a Khorne HQ, skip the DP and go with Kharn. He basically has the stats of a DP, but in a fun-sized Independant Character model (meaning you can stick him in a rhino with another squad). He also brings more attacks, hits better and actually has a ranged weapon. A Khorne DP with wings will just fly in and get slaughtered due to being singled out and having only 4 wounds.

As per usual, I'm a n00b so if I am off base here tell me. DP doesn't have a ranged weapon but doesn't he get ranged spells, or something to that effect?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Not Khorne princes. They're forbidden from picking psychic powers entirely. Hence why all Prince builds are Slaanesh Lashprinces.

**FITZZ**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Not Khorne princes. They're forbidden from picking psychic powers entirely. Hence why all Prince builds are Slaanesh Lashprinces.

While your correct about Khorne princes,not "all" Prince builds are Lashprince...i myself run a winged Nurgle DP with warptime.

**MechaEmperor7000**

"Most Princes" then =P Seriously that's all I see nowadays on competitive lists.

**FITZZ**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:"Most Princes" then =P Seriously that's all I see nowadays on competitive lists.

Again,your correct..I do still encounter a lot of Lash/Plague/Oblit builds..dull IMO.

After the "great Chaos codex exchange" I found it much more difficult to run pure Death Guard,but still attempt to do so.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I go very fluffy with my Death Guards, running Typhus as their exclusive HQ and only including one non-vehicle unit that isnt Plague Marines. However I've never won a game with them, so speaks alot of their effectiveness.

**FITZZ**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I go very fluffy with my Death Guards, running Typhus as their exclusive HQ and only including one non-vehicle unit that isnt Plague Marines. However I've never won a game with them, so speaks alot of their effectiveness.

I don't use Typhus,opting rather for DPs ..but do run a very fluffy Death Guard list consisting of no troops other than Plague Marines,lots of terminators,with alternating Vin/Pred heavy support...I win about half the time.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I go with the philosophy in the old 3.5 ed codex, where it said that DGs relied on massive amounts of independantly-fighting and mobile infantry forces mounted in Rhinos. Did *not* work out as well as I had planned.

**nosferatu1001**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:He has Initiative and strength 6 on the charge, 7 attacks that hit on a 2+, 2D6 pen, and Power weapon attacks. He's also only 25 points more than a Winged Khorne Prince and is immune to psychic powers entirely, has frag grenades and can summon Daemons near him, on top of not being able to be picked out from a squad by shooting. DPs on the other hand will likely attract alot of small-arms fire and maybe one or two lascannons to the face. Khorne princes are not gonna survive the run.

And? I have two, as they are cheap and even one getting to your lines is a problem for you. Khorne DPs DO survive the run, this is talking from running chaos essentially exclusively in 40k and i loooove DPs. You just have to learn how to hug terrain. Or use them as powerful counterassault units with great range.

And, as I mentioned: they are cheap, essentially throw away units that let your actually important stuff get to the opponent. Think termicide but with DPs.

Kharne dies to the first powerfist that hits him (2/3rd of the time) and, unless you are only hitting small units (which zerkers eat anyway) he doesnt get to kill the first before it hits him.

I placed 10th in the last tournament i was in, mainly due to wonky BP scoring as otherwise I had scored 6500 out of 7000 possible VPs and was 3 - 1 - 0. This was 40+ people as well, so not small!

**zionarbadon**

Because I don't really know where to start I just picked a build that I liked out of many builds I looked through. I'm not really experienced enough to make my own build (played like 3 games as ork [meh]). The one I was working with had DPs with Slannesh and LoS but I'm not sure really what LoS does, haven't looked it up just yet. *goes to get codex*. Are you able to have some troops nurgle and others that are not? Nurgle is my favorite though.

**MechaEmperor7000**

There's no benefit to a Mono god army anymore, so you can mix and match models with marks as you like. As for lash, it moves your opponent's units in whatever direction you want (wont get into the specifics though).

And Kharn still outperforms 2 princes. For one he doesnt need to hug terrain and can ride in a raider or even a rhino. He's also immune to psychic powers, which is a great plus since one of the major flaws about CSM i've heard are their lack of anti-psyker gear. Running two DPs for the sole purpose of diverting attention until they die doesnt seem that different than the possibility of Kharn suffering a PF to the face.

**zionarbadon**

I just read in my codex about kharn. If I understand it correctly I'd have to worry about him attacking my own men. Do you just normally leave him out by himself? Wouldn't that make him an easy target even if he is strong?

**MechaEmperor7000**

generally only 1 out of 6 will hit someone in his unit. You could always have him leave the unit before charging, that way he cannot hurt anyone. However I'm more than willing to loose a Berserker to overwhelm potential targets with Kharn and a mob of zerkers.

**zionarbadon**

I don't have any zerkers. I've got (well not yet, but they're being shipped to me) like 25 Plague marines and am trying to decide what else I want to get (after rhinos).

**FITZZ**

zionarbadon wrote:I don't have any zerkers. I've got (well not yet, but they're being shipped to me) like 25 Plague marines and am trying to decide what else I want to get (after rhinos).

Just out of curiosity,did you purchase the GW boxed Plague Marine kits?

**MechaEmperor7000**

zerkers are the cheapest marines (monetary wise) next to DA veterans. You get 12 of them for less than the price of a tactical box, and they're pretty effective.

**zionarbadon**

No, unfortunately I'm pretty strapped for cash with bills coming due next week. I went and bid on some off of ebay seeing as it is much cheaper. 10x plagues for 19$(after shipping) isn't a bad deal. I just wish I would be getting some bits too. Only a few of the ones I bought aren't painted but I'm hoping I can strip the paint off the other ones :p

Automatically Appended Next Post:
After bills are paid I may buy some GW stuff. Not sure yet though, ebay deals are pretty tempting :p hehe.