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templarboy wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:

rivers64 wrote:Fire Dragons.

Seconded. In a Wave Serpent of course

Really? 170 points to kill a transport then die?

If that's "the best" Eldar have, everyone should just stop playing them.

And that is why most people have stopped playing them. Their point costs are completely outta whack.

It's not the best anti-transport!!! It's the best anti-AV14. They will reliably kill a land raider, or anything else with lower armor. They will kill equal to their points cost every game they play. To kill transports, there are other options in the codex. They are also considered the single best unit in the eldar Codex for a reason. 16 points for a meltagun on a body x 5 - 10. Not much beats that.

Anything with an EML
Anything with Scatter Lasers

This is how Eldar Kills transports AND makes their points back.

AspireToGlory wrote:What? 3 meltaguns costs 15-30 points. Every transport in the game is cheaper than that. 3 Meltaguns will wreck any transport with ease.

Yes, if only you could put down three meltaguns and have that be that. Unfortunately, you also have to pay for the CARRIERS. A unit of melta vets costs twice as much as a rhino, BASE, and that's before you throw in the obligatory chimera, which makes it cost three times as much as the unit you want to destroy.

DarknessEternal wrote:Really? 170 points to kill a transport then die?

If that's "the best" Eldar have, everyone should just stop playing them.

My point exactly.

Of course, fire dragons aren't designed to kill transports, they're designed to kill heavy tanks. As for pure effectiveness, they're pretty good, but thankfully at leas a few of us here are capable of looking past raw killing power to see the bigger picture.

tekk_45 wrote:
Black Templars - Powerfist is about as close as BTs come to popping transports, except for tank hunter venerable dread /w multi melta (but you can only have one)

What's wrong with a tank hunter las/miss dread? Not to mention cheaper trilas-predators.

Vaktahi - multilas are still AP2 in effect against Raiders. The open topped is negated by AP-

For sheer points not a lot outdoes a guard HWS with 3 autocannons. Stick a ccs (for the points youd be mad not to have even one naked one) nearby, and twinlink away.

Ailaros wrote:Of course, fire dragons aren't designed to kill transports, they're designed to kill heavy tanks. As for pure effectiveness, they're pretty good, but thankfully at leas a few of us here are capable of looking past raw killing power to see the bigger picture.

I apologise if I'm not seeing the bigger picture, but I was simply responding to the thread in regards to my own experiences. Of course, my main opponents use Land Raiders predominately as transports, with the Rhinos from Tactical Squads acting as road blocks and mobile cover instead, so my own experiences may be different to yours, as such affecting my opinion.

For the record, I would also like to support the mention of Scatter Lasers as decent anti-transport, and mention Warp Spiders as an effective unit if they can get round the back of a vehicle and fire enough shots.

Guard-Vendettas

Care must be taken here to distinguish between ant-TANK and anti-TRANSPORT weapons. Tanks regularly have far superior armour (AV13-14) and thus require sufficiently deadly weapons to take them out (the humble meltagun for instance). Transports on the other hand have much lighter armour (AV10-12) and so warrant use of guns that, whilst not dedicated, supreme, ultra-pwning vehicle killers, still have pretty good chances of stopping the transport.

I've made the point in previous threads that you do NOT neccessarily have to destroy the transport utterly, simply stunning it will slow the occupants down for a turn and prevent them from shooting out of any hatches (this is mitigated, of course, by extra armour/spirit stones etc).

This opens the door to any gun that sits within the S6-8 bracket. Many of these guns have multiple shots, which compensate for the lower strength, and most importantly a lot of these guns are cheap as chips and can be stuffed into an army for a relatively small reduction in points.

From a personal POV (IG) I rate the autocannon and missile launcher as the best anti-tranport weapons in the codex.

Are these guns amazing anti-tank weapons? No. But they are decent anti-transport guns that can also choose to target infantry should the need arise.

nosferatu1001: Multi-lasers are S6, AP6.

L. Wrex

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

tekk_45 wrote:
Black Templars - Powerfist is about as close as BTs come to popping transports, except for tank hunter venerable dread /w multi melta (but you can only have one)

What's wrong with a tank hunter las/miss dread? Not to mention cheaper trilas-predators.

There's also the min-maxed Crusader squad option; 5 Crusaders one with plasma gun or melta (for this type of squad I prefer the range of the plasma) and one with lascannon, mounted in a lasback. In every game I've played with my BT that squad has always performed well.

Bah, thought multilas were AP-.....

*scurries away...*

Nick Ellingworth wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

tekk_45 wrote:
Black Templars - Powerfist is about as close as BTs come to popping transports, except for tank hunter venerable dread /w multi melta (but you can only have one)

What's wrong with a tank hunter las/miss dread? Not to mention cheaper trilas-predators.

There's also the min-maxed Crusader squad option; 5 Crusaders one with plasma gun or melta (for this type of squad I prefer the range of the plasma) and one with lascannon, mounted in a lasback. In every game I've played with my BT that squad has always performed well.

I typically dont run lascannons, they are a little too expensive for the kills they return IMO. As for TriLas Predators, in my experience they almost never make their points back, although YMMV. For the price of a ML LC Dread, you have almost paid what you would for a venerable with tank hunter and MM. And the Venerable will be much more survivable.

The Crusader squads I normally use for what they are best for, bashing them into the biggest infantry squad I can find. If I do use one for shooting its normally a 5 man in a rhino with PC and Plasma gun.

5 vanguard veterans w/meltabombs, sarge has th, combined with scout bikers.
that's outflanking/scouting/infiltrating near the tank, dropping locator beacon, vets turn up, hit it with meltabombs, keep it there with th 'till it's dead.

tekk_45 wrote:
Necrons - Shoot warriors can glance just as much as destroyers and there are much more of them, scarabs rock

Glancing hits don't really pop transports.

They can definately make them pretty useless though.

ill go with the fire dragons with an exarch

Element206 wrote:ill go with the fire dragons with an exarch

I'd have to wonder as to why you would dedicate 5+ meltaguns simply to stop a Rhino chassis. Your running mechanised right? Why not use the plethora of Shuriken Cann./EMLs/Pulse Lasers that you've got (if, natually, you take those upgrades anyway)?

Again, I question why people devote such extreme anti-armour measures to stop such (relatively) lightly armoured targets. If I offered you the choice as to whether to slag a Leman Russ Demolisher with those Dragons or a Chimera with a PIS inside which would you choose? On top of which you need to consider the unit cost. Let's go with 5 x Dragons inc and Exarch w/ Pike inside a Wave Serpent. at base cpst that unit comes to 190pts. Well in excess of what a Vet + Chimera is worth, and what's more, the Dragons are relatively rare, whilst I could field upto 6 x Vets in Chimeras.

I guess what I'm saying is that Dragons aren't a BAD choice for taking out transports, but that they're not *supposed* to be taking out transports. They're designed to kill the heavies in the opposing army, much like Broadsides and Vendettas and most of the other suggestions. If Dragons or Broadsides are your ONLY anti-tank option then...guh, I guess you have to make do with what you've got...but I know I'd rather take TL missile-pod Crisis suits for destroying Rhinos than wasting S10 AP1 railguns on it y'know?

L. Wrex

I would suggest anything between S7 and S10 with a range of >12" to infinity. (against AV11, against AV12 I would go S8 to S10, against AV10 S6 to S10)
important is: dont go into 12" of a transport unless you are totally sure to annihilate what is inside too, or unless you have no other choice. Otherwise you will be countered and the result is often worse for you than the loss of the transport for the opponent.

Vendettas are good, Hydras are good, HWS, Armoured Sentinels are ok, locking opposing Chimeras in crossfire with multilas is also neat, but I wouldnt take meltaguns unless I can rain death upon the passengers to make sure my meltas are safe in the opponents turn.

Eldar really have no reliable tank poppers of and sort besides fire dragons. Even against AV 10 or 11 most of our weaponry is still not cost effective. Also, by transport poppers are we discounting land raiders and such as transports?

3 Scatter Walkers can take down most transports if guided.

And @rivers64... WTH? Scatter Walkers? Prisms (sometimes...)? Falcons (if you like them)? EML Wraithlords? Where do you get 'no reliable tank poppers'?

3 Broadsides, 2 with target locks, 1 with a targetting array.

Max of 3 transports going pop per turn, ranging from AV10-AV14.

A squad of 3 Deathrain suits, two with target locks and one with an array dropping in behind the lines could also mean 3 Transports going pop if the rear is AV10.

A suicide 'Rana is also capable of popping transports for pennies.

rivers64 wrote:Eldar really have no reliable tank poppers of and sort besides fire dragons. Even against AV 10 or 11 most of our weaponry is still not cost effective.

Scatterlasers, Shuricannons, and EML's much?

Lascannons? Their stat line is almost identical to a MM, but with twice the range. And when all you need to do is glance an AV 11-12 to make it ineffective, I will take my range 48 thank you very much.