Mr Mephiston, his absolutely amazing wings and the subject of deepstriking

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**Kommissar Kel**

BloodThirSTAR wrote:I don't use Mephiston so I'm not trying to gain an advantage for my Blood Angels army. It's something I'd gladly let an opponent do.

Can a model that moves as jump infantry deepstrike?
Yes.

The question does not ask 'does a model have to move as jump infantry to deepstrike?'. It's simply asking if a model that can move as jump infantry be able to deepstrike. Mephiston can cast the power WoS that allows him to deepstrike, so that is all that's needed for him to be able to deepstrike, he does not have to be able to move as jump infantry the turn he arrives via deepstrike. Is a unit that moves as jump infantry actually moving like jump infantry when they deepstrike? I'd say no they don't, so going by what others have said no one that can move like jump infantry can deepstrike since they are not actually moving like jump infantry when they deepstrike. Being able to move like jump infantry now allows a unit to deepstrike. Moving like jump infantry and deepstriking are two different modes of movement, assuming you consider deepstriking to be a form of movement - some people don't.

No it is asking if a model Moves as jump infantry can deepstrike; not if a model that Can move as jump infantry under specific idyllic situations.

You would be correct if it was "Can a model that can move as jump infantry deepstrike?". But moves would mean all the time.

Note Nid and Daemon prince Wings are both upgrades that make the model in question always move as jump infantry, Wings of sanguinus is a Psychic power that must be invoked, and can be canceled or negated on the field in order to make the model move as jump infantry.

**calypso2ts**

I see exactly where he is going. You see Mephiston could potentially move as jump infantry by casting WoS. Therefore he can potentially at some point move as jump infantry so he can deep strike!

Also, any BA Librarian could, potentially, take the WoS power and even if they do not they COULD move as jump infantry and can DS as can BA Librarian Dreadnoughts, as can Assault squads that lose their jump packs. Because, in some configuration they COULD move as jump infantry so if they can potentially move as such they can DS.

While we are at it, any HQ that can take a jump pack can potentially move as jump infantry, so they need to be able to DS too...

I think you get the point. Mephiston has no rule stating he can move as jump infantry. He can temporarily gain the ability, but the potential to move as Jump Infantry at some point in the game does not mean you can DS.

**BloodThirSTAR**

Mephiston can move as jump infantry. I'll just leave it at that.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

a chaos demon prince can move as JI if you buy him wings, but why bother when according to your logic he doesnt need them to DS

**Kommissar Kel**

Yes he can move as jump infantry, that doesn't mean he moves as jump infantry.

**AspireToGlory**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:well that doesnt make any sense than does it, DS'ing is concurrent to a 12 inch move, so if he can't move as JI the turn he DS's than how'd he move that far?

"DS'ing is concurrent to a 12 inch move is a false statement. They are completely different actions.

Mephiston needs to be in reserve in order to deep strike, and to cast Wings in order to move like Jump Infantry.

But models in reserve cannot cast Psychic Powers, therefore he cannot "move like jump infantry" until he is on the board and has passed a psychic test. Therefore, he cannot deep strike.

**zeekill**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
The Strange Dude wrote:Even if the whole can't use a psychic power if not on the board didn't exist, moves as Jump Infantry is not the same as being Jump Infantry the CSM FAQ has an example of this with the Daemon Prince.

No one is saying he has to literally be Jump Infantry. Moving as Jump Infantry is enough to be able to deep strike. Mephiston doesn't normally move as Jump Infantry, though, so no Deep Strikes. (Bad idea anyway, all he'll get to do is fire his plasma pistol and then will die. Take a Techmarine if you want that)

Not at all. If he's in cover he will probably survive at least one turn.

**AspireToGlory**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:a chaos demon prince can move as JI if you buy him wings, but why bother when according to your logic he doesnt need them to DS

That was sarcasm. He was pointing out how ridiculous your argument was.

Daemon Princes are different. When you buy them wings, they move like Jump Infantry ALWAYS. They do not need to pass a psychic test to due so, and therefore do not have to be on the table in order to move like Jump Infantry.

**Monster Rain**

AspireToGlory wrote:"DS'ing is concurrent to a 12 inch move is a false statement. They are completely different actions.

I don't know about that.

Vehicles are counted as moving at Cruising Speed, which is a 12 inch move. I think its a fair comparison.

**Kommissar Kel**

Monster Rain wrote:
AspireToGlory wrote:"DS'ing is concurrent to a 12 inch move is a false statement. They are completely different actions.

I don't know about that.

Vehicles are counted as moving at Cruising Speed, which is a 12 inch move. I think its a fair comparison.

it would be concurrent to "over 6 inches" then.

**Monster Rain**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
AspireToGlory wrote:"DS'ing is concurrent to a 12 inch move is a false statement. They are completely different actions.

I don't know about that.

Vehicles are counted as moving at Cruising Speed, which is a 12 inch move. I think its a fair comparison.

it would be concurrent to "over 6 inches" then.

That's really all that being Jump Infantry is concurrent to in the first place.

This is beside the point.

Can Meph Deepstrike? Hell no. For all of the very good reasons enumerated above.

**AspireToGlory**

Monster Rain wrote:
AspireToGlory wrote:"DS'ing is concurrent to a 12 inch move is a false statement. They are completely different actions.

I don't know about that.

Vehicles are counted as moving at Cruising Speed, which is a 12 inch move. I think its a fair comparison.

That's because the rules for vehicles state that moving 12" means it has moved at cruising speed.

If I move my Jump Infantry 12", I don't then say the are "Deep Striking".

This loose associative logic where "it works like this here so why not here" is the issue. The rules are separated for a reason. You cannot apply one section of the rules when interpreting another section.

**Monster Rain**

AspireToGlory wrote:This loose associative logic where "it works like this here so why not here" is the issue. The rules are separated for a reason. You cannot apply one section of the rules when interpreting another section.

Nah, the issue is that Meph can't do anything but move as infantry until he casts Wings of Sanguinius.

**Bookwrack**

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Mephiston can move as jump infantry. I'll just leave it at that.

It's cute to see someone arguing that Vanguard Vets don't need to buy jump packs in order to deep strike, but since you already said you'd allow it, let us know how that works out for you.

**BloodThirSTAR**

You're adding in more than was asked in the original question. The question did not address when the unit moves as jump infantry, just that it can.

**Monster Rain**

BloodThirSTAR wrote:You're adding in more than was asked in the original question. The question did not address when the unit moves as jump infantry, just that it can.

Then the question is flawed and, forgive me for saying so, somewhat silly.

You've had this explained to you quite clearly. A conversation only works if you listen to other peoples' responses.

**puma713**

This thread is ridiculous.

**Frosty Hardtop**

This seems pretty cut and dry to me, let's look at it logically.

A> Mephiston is in reserve.
B> Models in reserve may not use psyker powers.
Ergo
X> Mephiston may not use psyker powers in reserve.

A> Mephiston has a psyker power that allows him to move as jump infantry.
X> Mephiston may not use psyker powers in reserve.
Ergo
Y> Mephiston may not use a psyker power that allows him to move as jump infantry while in reserve.

A> Models that do not move as jump infantry may not deep strike when in reserve.
Y> Mephiston may not use a psyker power that allows him to move as jump infantry while in reserve.
Ergo
Z> Mephiston may not deep strike when in reserve.

**Dracos**

Q: Can a unit that ‘moves as jump infantry’ deep strike? (p52)
A: Yes.

The question here is not whether Meph can move as jump infantry, but whether he does move as jump infantry. The answer is most absolutely "no", he does not. It is irrelevant that during the game he can be made to move as jump infantry, since deep striking is decided before the game.

No, Meph can't deep strike.

**reds8n**

puma713 wrote:This thread is ridiculous.

Quite.

Of course if you are happy to allow an opponent to make such a move when playing that is entirely your choice.

Seeing as this has been comprehensively answered and the sole possible counter is, being generous, a massive stretch, we're done here.

Fret not though, I'm sure another thread that will make you want to chew your own face off will come along soon enough