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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 14:32:42
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Worth the 15 points? I'm not convinced
Ailaros, maybe you missed my post since it was right before yours. In my post, I went to great lengths to provide a cost analysis of the las cannon. My findings were pretty conclusive--the las cannon is absolutely worth the points if you will be firing the leman russ at either a vehicle or a monstrous creature, or units with either/or FNP or multiple wounds at t4 (oblits, nob bikers, characters, ect) and not worth the points if your only target will be standard infantry or marines in cover.
Since almost every army in the game has vehicles or monstrous creatures, this means that the las cannon will almost always be worth the points.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 14:38:46
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Horrific Howling Banshee
Buxton, Derbyshire, UK, Europe, Earth
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On like a punisher i would give it a hull mtd hb and 2 sponson mtd hbs to spew out 29 strength 5 shots!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 16:55:14
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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So it's looking like IG=lascannon & IA=H. Flamer Gotta go perform some surgery.....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/30 16:55:31
The true followers of the God-Emperor will never forget their name! We are the Imperial Guard!
Now and forever serving the God-Emperor, and Him alone! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 18:49:40
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Kid_Kyoto
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DevianID wrote:
Ailaros, maybe you missed my post since it was right before yours. In my post, I went to great lengths to provide a cost analysis of the las cannon. My findings were pretty conclusive--the las cannon is absolutely worth the points if you will be firing the leman russ at either a vehicle or a monstrous creature, or units with either/or FNP or multiple wounds at t4 (oblits, nob bikers, characters, ect) and not worth the points if your only target will be standard infantry or marines in cover.
Since almost every army in the game has vehicles or monstrous creatures, this means that the las cannon will almost always be worth the points.
I think his point is that it's not worth the points because if you're firing the Russ at a vehicle or a monstrous creature (or 2+ armor), you're not using it to it's fullest potential to begin with. You're making your sub-optimal scenario slightly more optimal, at a non-trivial cost.
MCs you're going to get at most two wounds on. Vendettas or Ratlings would do this job better, let alone a plasma squad. With vehicles, artillery or meltas would do the job better. With 2+ armor, you're not ignoring the armor anyway, so you may as well be using a multilaser on them, which is something that garden variety chimera spam IG lists have in excess.
There's just little use for the LC on a LRBT. LRD or Executioner, maybe. I think I would put it on the Demolisher for sure.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Brother Hestapheus wrote:On like a punisher i would give it a hull mtd hb and 2 sponson mtd hbs to spew out 29 strength 5 shots!
Or for 25 points more, you could take 3 HWS with HBs and have ALL your shots be AP4 and be able to use orders, on top of that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/30 18:51:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 19:03:28
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Dakka Veteran
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daedalus wrote:
I think his point is that it's not worth the points because if you're firing the Russ at a vehicle or a monstrous creature (or 2+ armor), you're not using it to it's fullest potential to begin with. You're making your sub-optimal scenario slightly more optimal, at a non-trivial cost.
MCs you're going to get at most two wounds on. Vendettas or Ratlings would do this job better, let alone a plasma squad. With vehicles, artillery or meltas would do the job better. With 2+ armor, you're not ignoring the armor anyway, so you may as well be using a multilaser on them, which is something that garden variety chimera spam IG lists have in excess.
The more important point, I think, is that you never know what you're going to be facing, or what targets will be available. The lascannon helps against some pretty common targets that are dangerous...light-medium armor and monstrous creatures. You've probably never noticed how common IG and marine mech armies are, and the ordnance blast isn't much to rely on there. There's no good target for the battle cannon for the first turn or two, and even if there is (long fangs), the extra lascannon shot is still handy.
As for monstrous creatures...sure, ratlings might be better, except for MC armor and the fact that ratlings suck against everything else and no one takes them. Your plasma/melta vet units only get to shoot at close range...might not happen much with a long-ranged Tyranofex. Vendettas are great, but most lists only get 3, and at AV 12 they aren't going to last forever. Nothing wrong with getting another quality weapon on the field, especially on a fairly tough platform.
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Holy thread Necromancy Batman. We just might have a new record. - Jayden63 commenting after someone responds to one of my battlereports from 27 months ago |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 19:14:06
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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daedalus wrote: You're making your sub-optimal scenario slightly more optimal, at a non-trivial cost.
Exactly.
The question here isn't "would a lascannon be helpful?" but "is a lascannon going to be 15 points worth of helpful in most games?"
As mentioned, I could see it on a demolisher or an executioner (which actually pair with the turret weapon), or if your list is otherwise very much lacking in anti-tank, but on a regular russ? It sounds like putting a hull lascannon on a hydra - it's main targets just don't jive well with the upgrade, and the upgrade only comes into its own when the main gun isn't doing much (in which case, will a single BS3 lascannon?)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 21:30:47
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Kid_Kyoto
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Grimaldi wrote:
You've probably never noticed how common IG and marine mech armies are, and the ordnance blast isn't much to rely on there. There's no good target for the battle cannon for the first turn or two, and even if there is (long fangs), the extra lascannon shot is still handy.
Actually, I have noticed that. My point is that I'd rather not have to use the single ordinance blast against a Rhino at all. The ordinance would wait merrily until I used the vendetta or BID ordered Missile Launcher HWS as a canopener, and THEN it would fire. No sense in wasting a tank shot.
I normally bring 2 to 3 tanks; a lascannon on each of those is about half of the cost of that HWS squad. Why not spend a few more points and get a unit that doesn't tie one hand behind my back?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/30 21:31:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/02 17:21:30
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Member of the Malleus
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+1 to pchappel
I use my troops for troop killing. I use my Vendettas mostly for anti-tank but they get shot down pretty easily. My back up is the LC on my LRBT. The way I play, I need to be versatile so one LC shot is worth it for me without having to worry about the space for an extra HW squad.
My two cents!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/03 16:58:47
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hull las cannon really isn't worth it. Your probably shooting at infantry in cover and the one bs3 las cannon shot isn't worth the 15 points for that. I just give my Russes a free heavy flamer for burning scouts and outflankers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/03 22:45:12
Subject: Re:Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Stormrider wrote:The only reason I take LC's is to ensure my tank isn't a complete waste if the main cannon gets blown off. It's a 15 pt insurance policy per se. Although my New Demolisher is a bolter boat just for Close range killing.
Don't you get to choose which gun is blown off? If not me and my friends have been playing the game wrong for a long time...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/04 00:24:50
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Hauptmann
Diligently behind a rifle...
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DarkHound wrote:An Imperial Armor upgrade. For 20 points you can fire two shots from an Ordnance weapon if you haven't moved that turn.
Ah, thanks for that.
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Catachan LIX "Lords Of Destruction" - Put Away
1943-1944 Era 1250 point Großdeutchland Force - Bolt Action
"The best medicine for Wraithlords? Multilasers. The best way to kill an Avatar? Lasguns."
"Time to pour out some liquor for the pinkmisted Harlequins"
Res Ipsa Loquitor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/04 23:25:26
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Samus_aran115 wrote:Lascannon for me, thanks.  They're great for taking out random big things (Like rhinos or a monstrous creature...Lots of things) and even shooting them into a unit of standard guys can be useful.
The heavy bolter is great for anti-infantry, but I usually just take those as sponsons anyway, so having another one is njust redundant. Also, I always take the vanilla russ, so I'm basically covered with my anti-infantry anyway.
Redundancy is one of the most valuable things you can have in 40K. If you're buying sponsons, then taking a hull lascannon is just madness. You're just trying to make your tank do a little bit of everything. Either go with the lascannon for 15, or three heavy bolters for 20. Automatically Appended Next Post: GalacticDefender wrote:Don't you get to choose which gun is blown off? If not me and my friends have been playing the game wrong for a long time...
Your opponent gets to choose which gun he destroys.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/04 23:26:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/04 23:50:00
Subject: Re:Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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So it's different from choosing which guy in a unit is killed, because you get to choose that, right? Wow I suddenly feel like a noob because I'm questioning my self so much....
What's wrong with having a tank that does a little bit of everything?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/05 00:22:28
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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You can allocate wounds inflicted on your models, yes. The rulebook is quite clear on the steps and restrictions on this, I suggest you refer to it.
A tank that tries to do a little bit of everything usually ends up doing nothing. IG in particular is very good at fielding many specialists and always having the right tool for the job. If you need a screwdriver, use a screwdriver, not a hammer that has a flat corner.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/05 02:05:10
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Fixture of Dakka
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Terminus wrote:A tank that tries to do a little bit of everything usually ends up doing nothing. IG in particular is very good at fielding many specialists and always having the right tool for the job. If you need a screwdriver, use a screwdriver, not a hammer that has a flat corner.
This is dead on the Money!
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"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/05 03:57:26
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Hmmm. Also if the tank is destroyed it's more of a loss, too.
Although taking a LR executioner with a lascannon and plasma sponsons is tempting....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/05 03:57:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/05 04:36:01
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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The lascannon is an unnecessary expenditure. Five plasma cannons is enough.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/06 22:28:33
Subject: Leman Russ Battle Tank hull mounted weapons, lascannon worth it? [IA/IG]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Eh, it sounds more like the stock leman russ is not worth the points based off the comments in the tread--forget whether the las cannon is worth it or not. And I mostly agree, if I was headed to a tourney I would take manticores instead of leman russes--similiar cost, more damage up front, s10 versus vehicles, s10 to instant kill thunderwolves, more blasts on average over a 7 turn game than a leman russ, ect.
That said, I still say that I have proved fairly conclusively that if you have a leman russ battle tank--regardless of the LRBT being good or not compared to other options--the las cannon is a good investment on that tank.
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