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Kilkrazy wrote:I can't help thinking that a simpler solution to the problem of enemy hiding is to use tactics.

Yes, tactics.

Only now one man can lob a shot through a window from a couple hundred feet away instead of an entire squad having to crawl in close so they can toss grenades in the windows. Chucking regular grenades will still be an option, but now so will this. Though I suppose you could always just drop a bomb on them.

Tyyr wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I can't help thinking that a simpler solution to the problem of enemy hiding is to use tactics.

Yes, tactics.

Only now one man can lob a shot through a window from a couple hundred feet away instead of an entire squad having to crawl in close so they can toss grenades in the windows. Chucking regular grenades will still be an option, but now so will this. Though I suppose you could always just drop a bomb on them.

And it keeps guys from getting killed. Works for me (although I'd like to see serious trials between it and the new multishot grenade launchers in use).

So someone in the know, how is this better than the conventional underslung grenade launcher?

Frazzled wrote:So someone in the know, how is this better than the conventional underslung grenade launcher?

The big difference is that the grenades have a very accurate timed fuse and laser rangefinder, so you can have the shell go off around a corner. If there's a guy hiding behind a corner 100 feet away, you fire it straight by the corner set to blow up 102 feet away and bypass the wall. If you're firing into a room, you can set it to explode just inside the window instead of wherever it lands (which might mean it fell through a hole, into a closet, etc.). As a standalone weapon it's also more accurate, easier to fire rapidly, and easier to carry spare ammunition for (the guy doesn't have a rifle or magazines to cart around). They're planning to develop more specialized ammunition for it, which is also easier to handle if one person is deciding what to use instead of giving a few shells to each squad member.

In a lot of situations its not really any better than an M203, maybe worse because the grenade is so much smaller. For certain situations though it's a lot better and more precise. It's not a replacement for the M203 so much as a compliment.

Tyyr wrote:In a lot of situations its not really any better than an M203, maybe worse because the grenade is so much smaller. For certain situations though it's a lot better and more precise. It's not a replacement for the M203 so much as a compliment.

Are there plans for both?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: I was thinking of this grenade launcher as a competitor. I'd think (as its buttloads cheaper I am sure) this would be a better G luancher. Plus its in service.

Whats the advantage over this puppy?

Frazzled wrote:

Tyyr wrote:In a lot of situations its not really any better than an M203, maybe worse because the grenade is so much smaller. For certain situations though it's a lot better and more precise. It's not a replacement for the M203 so much as a compliment.

Are there plans for both?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: I was thinking of this grenade launcher as a competitor. I'd think (as its buttloads cheaper I am sure) this would be a better G luancher. Plus its in service.

Whats the advantage over this puppy?

Well the M32 is only in use with the Marines and Special Forces, while the XM25 is only in use with the Army and most likely the Special Forces. As far as advantage, I think the M25 has a flatter trajectory and it does have a smaller round being 25mm while the M32 has a 40mm round.

Frazzled wrote:

Tyyr wrote:In a lot of situations its not really any better than an M203, maybe worse because the grenade is so much smaller. For certain situations though it's a lot better and more precise. It's not a replacement for the M203 so much as a compliment.

Are there plans for both?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: I was thinking of this grenade launcher as a competitor. I'd think (as its buttloads cheaper I am sure) this would be a better G luancher. Plus its in service.

Whats the advantage over this puppy?

Weight, accuracy, range, usefulness in urban situations, ammo carrying capacity, ability to accurately strike targets on the other side of barriers. Those things were great in vietnam, but the chest high wall gears of war style warfare were currently involved in reduces their usefulness significantly. Oddly enough, multi barrel launchers are fantastic for non lethal situations though. Great for deploying immense amounts of tear gas or smoke.

agroszkiewicz wrote:Its a high tech grenade launcher. Step in the right direction, but Bolters penetrate armor and THEN explode. These derive killing power from a release of kinetic force in the direction of the target. Subtle but substantial difference.

I think its a bolter, it even looks roughly like one. The airburst round is just ammo, all the ammo needed at the moment, the armour penetrating round the Adeptus Astartes use is different and shoot different targets. This bolter currently fires S3 Ap- Negates cover. I am sure given the need S4 Ap5 rounds are possible, but Taliban like robes not ceramic mesh flak armour.

Dibber fuses have always been able to go through a wall or window and explode inside. Time fuses have long been able to detonate a shell after X rotations

What this grenade does is let you set the fuse on the fly to go over a wall or past a corner and explode a few feet the other side.

While this is an impressive piece of technology, as far as it goes, I fail to see why a good grenade launcher operator could not shoot at the street beside the corner, or just blow up the wall, etc.

It will have the major advantage of making lady gun enthusiasts slide off their chairs.

Its not designed to replace grenades you wouldnt use it to clear a room or satuate a small area like you would a m203 etc think of it as a force multiplyer you dont now need two fire teams one to fix the chap fireing over the wall and one to flank untill they can get a shot ....
now you just target and engage ! saveing not only ammo but more importantly energy and time and the less time your pinned down by that chap behind the wall the better you dont want the op's to keep you in one place too long and call in reenforcements..

I don't see how that invalidates my point. A grenade will blast through the wall, or it will land beside the corner and hit the guy with fragments.

But let's give the gun a couple of years in combat and see how it works out.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't see how that invalidates my point. A grenade will blast through the wall, or it will land beside the corner and hit the guy with fragments.

But let's give the gun a couple of years in combat and see how it works out.

Foot thick mudbrick walls are hardier then you think.

So shoot two grenades.

Yeah 24inch thick mudbrick walls have been known to soak up javalin strikes . this looks to be a far more surgical and cleaner weapon than a m320 with a longer range and far better acuracy and the abillity to fire flat so is easyer to use in built up areas or inside buildings etc.
the range on the xm25 is 2,300ft compared to a 40mm grenade at 360ft for a weapon point target and then the chance of getting first time hit are very low giving the target time to get into cover or bug out.
also rate of fire on the m203/m320 is 6-8 rounds a min wheres this is a much higher 30-40 and then you can chose your ammo ether High Explosive Air-Burst (HEAB), door breaching, armor piercing and anti-personnel munitions together with 2 types of munitions that are not lethal: the agent and blunt dispersing airburst.
and as each sqd will be issued with one of these more lighter ammo is able to be carryed compered to 40mm or grenades..

Kilkrazy wrote:So shoot two grenades.

If it's structurally capable of resisting one then it is structurally capable of resisting one, then another. That also risks excess damage in a civilian area, is harder to accurately aim, and doesn't actually kill the dude you're attempting to silence (unless it does) allowing him to just move. All while being bigger, slower, and less versatile in urban conflicts.

I like the sound of it. Shell penetrates the wall, then goes boom. In an Urban environment it's ideal.

I just worry about the potential for dead innocents (no, I will not call it 'collateral damage' for that is a stupid term attempting to exonerate sloppy practices). I mean, if you're gun can shoot through the wall, how do you know if it's the intended target behind it?

Mr Mystery wrote:I like the sound of it. Shell penetrates the wall, then goes boom. In an Urban environment it's ideal.

I just worry about the potential for dead innocents (no, I will not call it 'collateral damage' for that is a stupid term attempting to exonerate sloppy practices). I mean, if you're gun can shoot through the wall, how do you know if it's the intended target behind it?

presumably this gun is for 'OH, gak, they're shooting at us but they're behind a wall so we can't do anything' situations, when they know that its the right person

or they might spend another rediculous amount of money trying to develop a camera round for the same gun

It dosent penetrate the wall rather you aim just above it then the round airbursts over the target.

Ah right enough. Misread the article.