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For an Elite kitted out Bloodcrushers, hard as nails to kill, hits like a ton of bricks shot from a cannon

For Heavy I'll agree to the aforementioned DP w wings and Iron Hide and some mark prolly Nurgle

Polonius wrote:

geordie09 wrote:How many other hq's could stand up to 30 cc armed marines and calgar the titanic god of war ultrasmurf god?

Either C'tan. Seriously.

I think in general Calgar plus triple honor guard is better, but either C'tan could just plow through them all.

Until you consider you have 54 S6 attacks, 9 S8 thunder hammer attacks, and 4(5 depending on how you read the rule) Calgar attacks.... and this is all without the charge.

Shrike325 wrote:

Polonius wrote:

geordie09 wrote:How many other hq's could stand up to 30 cc armed marines and calgar the titanic god of war ultrasmurf god?

Either C'tan. Seriously.

I think in general Calgar plus triple honor guard is better, but either C'tan could just plow through them all.

Until you consider you have 54 S6 attacks, 9 S8 thunder hammer attacks, and 4(5 depending on how you read the rule) Calgar attacks.... and this is all without the charge.

Well, you'd have some troubles getting all of those squads into base to base with the C'tan. Maybe you can charge with two, but it would be quite the trick to get all three into base to base while also all being in range to attack.

Even then, assuming everybody able to attack but nobody charging, you get 54 S6 attacks. That's 27 hits, 4.5 wounds, 2.25 failed saves. The Nightbringer can then drop the gaze of death, which should kill almost six honor guard. Now, the 9 S8 attacks become 4.5 hits, 2.25 wounds, and 1.125 failed saves. Calgar chips in 5 more, 2.5 hit, 1.875 wounds, or .95 more failed saves. Sure, you'll bring down the night bringer, but he'll get to pop the gaze of death once more, killing six more before he drops.

I forgot that the champs can take thunderhammers, and while I'll admit that the Nightbringer can't cut through them, I think odds are he'll tie 'em up for a turn...

Polonius wrote:

Shrike325 wrote:

Polonius wrote:

geordie09 wrote:How many other hq's could stand up to 30 cc armed marines and calgar the titanic god of war ultrasmurf god?

Either C'tan. Seriously.

I think in general Calgar plus triple honor guard is better, but either C'tan could just plow through them all.

Until you consider you have 54 S6 attacks, 9 S8 thunder hammer attacks, and 4(5 depending on how you read the rule) Calgar attacks.... and this is all without the charge.

Well, you'd have some troubles getting all of those squads into base to base with the C'tan. Maybe you can charge with two, but it would be quite the trick to get all three into base to base while also all being in range to attack.

Even then, assuming everybody able to attack but nobody charging, you get 54 S6 attacks. That's 27 hits, 4.5 wounds, 2.25 failed saves. The Nightbringer can then drop the gaze of death, which should kill almost six honor guard. Now, the 9 S8 attacks become 4.5 hits, 2.25 wounds, and 1.125 failed saves. Calgar chips in 5 more, 2.5 hit, 1.875 wounds, or .95 more failed saves. Sure, you'll bring down the night bringer, but he'll get to pop the gaze of death once more, killing six more before he drops.

I forgot that the champs can take thunderhammers, and while I'll admit that the Nightbringer can't cut through them, I think odds are he'll tie 'em up for a turn...

So from this debate we can establish that both Calgar and the honour guards... and the C'tan are mega hq's.

Well, I freely admiteed earlier that the honor guards are a better mega-HQ than the C'tan. I don't have the DE codex, so Vect and the Dais might be my #3.

Polonius wrote:

Shrike325 wrote:

Polonius wrote:

geordie09 wrote:How many other hq's could stand up to 30 cc armed marines and calgar the titanic god of war ultrasmurf god?

Either C'tan. Seriously.

I think in general Calgar plus triple honor guard is better, but either C'tan could just plow through them all.

Until you consider you have 54 S6 attacks, 9 S8 thunder hammer attacks, and 4(5 depending on how you read the rule) Calgar attacks.... and this is all without the charge.

Well, you'd have some troubles getting all of those squads into base to base with the C'tan. Maybe you can charge with two, but it would be quite the trick to get all three into base to base while also all being in range to attack.

Even then, assuming everybody able to attack but nobody charging, you get 54 S6 attacks. That's 27 hits, 4.5 wounds, 2.25 failed saves. The Nightbringer can then drop the gaze of death, which should kill almost six honor guard. Now, the 9 S8 attacks become 4.5 hits, 2.25 wounds, and 1.125 failed saves. Calgar chips in 5 more, 2.5 hit, 1.875 wounds, or .95 more failed saves. Sure, you'll bring down the night bringer, but he'll get to pop the gaze of death once more, killing six more before he drops.

I forgot that the champs can take thunderhammers, and while I'll admit that the Nightbringer can't cut through them, I think odds are he'll tie 'em up for a turn...

I didn't mean to imply that the Nightbringer is bad, just the fact that he stands no chance against the Calgar choice... nothing does. Granted you're spending almost 2000 points for that FoC, but it beats anything out there.

Now, how does including a C'tan or a Monolith work? After all, with the Necron ruling, if you drop below 25% of models with the Necron rule when fielding them, your army phases out. Hmm, 25% of zero (since C'tan and Monoliths are Necron models that DON'T have the Necron rule)...hmmm, the entire army phases out if you include a single Necron unit without the rule immediately, or an opponent only has to kill a couple 'cron models if you take a regular unit of them. Ouch, stay away from the 'crons!!! Also means that the Nightbringer and Deceiver are far less intimidating

Okay, in truth, I'm sure the original poster is ignoring this special rule for his army.

I would think that only the necrons would phase out, but you would need at least one necron rule unit as you can't "fall" below 25% without a necron unit to lose, as your percentage cannot move at all.

Looking at all the posts I think this list can only be filled by someone who plays each army and knows them really well. Each person has an opinion of what is best-in-slot and probably comes from your favorite army too. This case is true for me

timetowaste85 wrote:Now, how does including a C'tan or a Monolith work? After all, with the Necron ruling, if you drop below 25% of models with the Necron rule when fielding them, your army phases out. Hmm, 25% of zero (since C'tan and Monoliths are Necron models that DON'T have the Necron rule)...hmmm, the entire army phases out if you include a single Necron unit without the rule immediately, or an opponent only has to kill a couple 'cron models if you take a regular unit of them. Ouch, stay away from the 'crons!!! Also means that the Nightbringer and Deceiver are far less intimidating

Okay, in truth, I'm sure the original poster is ignoring this special rule for his army.

Correct me if I am wrong (and this is merely theatrics, I'm holding the Codex in lap atm) but the phase out rule SPECIFICALLY states that you lose 75% of your ORIGINAL number of NECRON units (units with the "Necron" special rule). As it is impossible to lose 75% of 0, then you have no fear of Phase out when just taking a monolith.

Shrike325 wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that the Nightbringer is bad, just the fact that he stands no chance against the Calgar choice... nothing does. Granted you're spending almost 2000 points for that FoC, but it beats anything out there.

Besides Lukas and his "Za Warudo!" ability..


I do think however, the Calgar choice is good, I think it could easily bump Fateweaver off the list, but fateweaver may win out more if you get to take alot of saves (and if you'd need to) ((And I completely forgot Farsight, he may be worth investing more time researching))

A full IG Platoon leaves too much at risk, its not too hard to kill it outright (and the bits that may survive will probably be "Falling Back" off the board) the Melta-vets are probably your best bet.

As for the elites options I listed, I think Furiosos are VERY strong with their current incarnation to the game, there may be some other, stronger choices (Certainly not Terminators however, they are very 'stale' compared to other options) such as Chosen, Crushers, Lootas, and a few other options to consider.

Alot of the issues I have noticed however with alot of the "list comp" people have been throwing up there is that it is very "Assault-heavy" which is fine and all, but remember the golden rule "It doesn't matter how good you fight if you can't get into combat"

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:A full IG Platoon leaves too much at risk, its not too hard to kill it outright (and the bits that may survive will probably be "Falling Back" off the board) the Melta-vets are probably your best bet.

A full platoon with commissars is actually really hard to kill as you can use the squads individually to shield more important things. Also, unlike single big squads of units they cannot be killed in one go by a sweeping advance or a massive death company charge. When you can use that many commissars there is no need to combine your squads so it gives you a lot more tactical options.