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scubasteve04 wrote:Do space marines really need stubborn though? They already have ATSKNF and decent LD. Whats the big advantages of stubborn?

When you lose an assault not having to take fearless saves, and not breaking when you don't want to and being escorted off the board are two pretty good reasons.

Tau ones are not generaly worth it.

I love the Doom and parasite for Tau, Sward lord is also good.

I've been running Skarbrand + Masque/Skulltaker in daemons and find that list to be amazing, using masque's abilities, to make stuff easier to assult or pie plate from the sould grinders.

yeah, like 2/3ds of special characters are underpowered and overpriced, which makes them not even worth considering. The other third are special characters that can be made to work if the entire rest of your army is built around them. As such, as has been mentioned, the better ones like Ghaz or Khan are ones that mess with your FOC to let you build different armies. Very, very few are worth taking for their own sake (Marbo being one of them).

Personally, I'm a big fan of Al'Rahem. If you're playing a guard infantry horde, being able to both declutter your DZ and be able to get a second deployment phase off the side of the board are invaluable. Plus, he synergizes so well with stuff, being able to BiD special weapons teams, and being able to "like the wind" on power blobs to give them an 18" threat range straight off the board. Plus, that he IDs MCs is pretty cool too, though I've yet to be able to use this ability.

Ailaros wrote:yeah, like 2/3ds of special characters are underpowered and overpriced, which makes them not even worth considering. The other third are special characters that can be made to work if the entire rest of your army is built around them. As such, as has been mentioned, the better ones like Ghaz or Khan are ones that mess with your FOC to let you build different armies. Very, very few are worth taking for their own sake (Marbo being one of them).

Personally, I'm a big fan of Al'Rahem. If you're playing a guard infantry horde, being able to both declutter your DZ and be able to get a second deployment phase off the side of the board are invaluable. Plus, he synergizes so well with stuff, being able to BiD special weapons teams, and being able to "like the wind" on power blobs to give them an 18" threat range straight off the board. Plus, that he IDs MCs is pretty cool too, though I've yet to be able to use this ability.

Two thirds? Really?

I know no one has mentioned him, maybe you guys think he is overpriced, but after what I've experienced this week, I'm going with Abaddon The Despoiler.

I played against him twice this week and in both games he earned his points back more than twice over - Once against my Necrons and once against my Dark Eldar.

IMO he is the most destructive HQ choice in cc in the whole of 40K. What can take him out???

Shooting.

Assault 2 lasguns and first rank fire second rank fire. God I hate that.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Two thirds? Really?

I was giving it the benefit of the doubt. I guess I could believe that 3/4 of them are overcosted and underpowered.

Puscifer wrote:Abaddon The Despoiler.

...like this guy. Abbadon is good against units that have few attacks. Anything with lots of attacks will eat him for breakfast with little damage done in return.

At least he has eternal warrior, unlike Ahriman, who is loltastically bad.

Mozzyfuzzy wrote:Assault 2 lasguns and first rank fire second rank fire. God I hate that.

haha, yeah, I felt bad because a 10 man squad of guardsman I was using killed off (or rather took the last wound) of an Eldar Avatar. Its all about numbers sometimes

Creed and Marbo. Kharne and Vulcan are pretty amazing deals as well. In the DE book, as far as SCs go, the Baron, Duke and Lilith are all really good for their points. (not as good as marbo, Kharn, or Vulcan, but the DE book needed a little love in this thread)

Puscifer wrote:I know no one has mentioned him, maybe you guys think he is overpriced, but after what I've experienced this week, I'm going with Abaddon The Despoiler.

I played against him twice this week and in both games he earned his points back more than twice over - Once against my Necrons and once against my Dark Eldar.

IMO he is the most destructive HQ choice in cc in the whole of 40K. What can take him out???

zogwort?
sanguinor?
lysander?
ninja'd.

Lysander puts up a very good fight against Abaddon, but through sheer weight of attacks, Big A just pulls ahead.

Not sure on Sanguinor's rules to give an opinion I'm afraid.


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Vect (sans Dais) gives Abaddon fits though.

It depends to 'make' some armies you 'need' SC. Salamanders dont have a codex (yet! Tíocfaid Ar Lá!) so to get any benifit of fluff you need vulkan who is well priced for his gear and abilities. It's just sad that you have to take him all the time.
The BA don't need SC unless they want to jiggle the FO chart.