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Hey,

So I was thinking today, looking through the army lists on here, that people seldom take special characters.

There are some obvious reasons for this:

1) You are trying to shave points for competative armies which leads to realising that...
2) Sometimes special characters are actually less effective and cost more, relatively speaking, than tailor made ones.
3) It's a little lazy, just shoving them into a list without much thought
4) You might reasonably assume it's unlikely that someone like Marneus Calgar would fight some backwater battle in Nowheresville, Midlonowa

As a general reminder, you are to make sure that your post does not contain any swearing. That is not a job only for the word filter. If your posts consistently contain swears, you will eventually be suspended. Thanks ~Manchu

However, this is not what this thread is about.

I was wondering who you thought were the most competative special characters, taking into account points cost to abilites ratio, in 40k?

If a regular chaplain could take hellfire rounds, then Chaplain Cassius would cost just as much as a regular chaplain, with a master crafted weapon, FNP, higher toughness, and his preferred enemy special rule, and all that whatnot. So far, he is the best priced one I have found.
If you use the cost for a power armored troop carrying a heavy flamer when adding up the points, Vulkan is very cost effective. Of course, everyone knows that Vulkan has some ridiculous power to him.

Pretty much any special character which alters the FOC in some way or provides an army wide buff is going to be an effective and competitive choice (assuming that you are in fact building your list around these buffs/changes otherwise they are pointless). Vulkan, Pedro, Shrike, The Sanguinor, Dante, Logan, Duke Sliscus, the Baron and Eldrad being some of the most obvious examples.

Its usually the the purely combat based super leaders like Calgar who aren't worth it, they have to be in combat to get their points back which limits their effectiveness. There are some notable exceptions like Mephiston and the Swarmlord, who are just so incredibly badass in combat (and have ways to get there intact) that they can be worth it. In larger games they become more helpful though, its always nice to have a character which can beat their way through

On top of this there are some outright bad special characters, many of them in older outdated books and showing their age because of that, but they still show up occasionally in the 5th edition codices (Decapitator being top of the list). Some of these characters are simply included for fluff purposes, their rules often don't measure up (at least they aren't any better than standard HQs) but are included so people can run fluffy armies with the correct HQs to go with them if they want to. These kinds of special characters have been falling out of favour though, GW rules writing has gotten much better in 5th and its much easier to make lists which are both fluffy and competitive at the same time.

I do enjoy Marbo
Vulkan is amazing, HF,BP,Relicblade,2+3++, marine HQ statline.
Sweet combat tactics replacement

You're wrong, as far as CSM are concerned

I fit Kharne into every single list I make. I try to make the doom of malantai into every nids list as well....What else...Cato Sicarius and Casius are always good choices for vanilla SM too.

+1 On The Doom of Malantai, at 90 points you cant go far wrong.

The Masque is a STEAL at 100 points for Chaos Daemons considering the combos she can pull off.

Doom is decently cost effective. As areTellion and Cassius. I actually like Khan too, having only played him... Once, I guess I can't truely endorse him yet though...

@Liam0404: The Masque AND Skulltaker are both steals for Chaos Daemons-Skulltaker costs about the same as a basic Carnifex without upgrades now, and will chop it in a single hit. He can also insta-kill multiple different special characters. He's a steal as well. Also, The Changeling: first special character that costs a single digit (5pts!!) If anybody can top a special character costing 5 points, let me know. Good luck guys

Pointwise Skulltaker on a Juggernaut is Overpriced solely because you are paying for Iron Hide twice. However his effectiveness overall is insane. Fateweaver is insane. His rule effectively means all those around him effectively has two times the wounds.

Two words.

Ghazghkull.

Thraka.

Vulkan.

Twin-Linked melta and flamers are really just fantastic. The Mastercrafted Thunder Hammers are icing on an already delicious cake.

The Cake is a Lie =P

All characters seem to be point-efficient for what they do. Now it's just a question of which one has more perks per points.

For me what does it for Vulkan is that sweet 2+3++ and not being in TDA

The Mastercrafted Relic Blade with Digital weapons ain't exactly shabby either.

OMG I knew there was more ...

lets not forget he has room for a bolt pistol!

so does shrike ... lol

Eldar Avatar. Only problem is that the rest of the list he goes with is less effective.

@Powerguy

Eldrad is not quite that effecient because he is still 210 points and doesn't suit low point games. Don't get me wrong he is amazing, and value for points, but you won't be running him every time. Sometimes the simple doom/guide/fortune seer works well enough for way less points.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:OMG I knew there was more ...

lets not forget he has room for a bolt pistol!

so does shrike ... lol

Don't forget the twin-linked Heavy Flamer!

I left that one as an auto include but remember if you don't take his chapter tactics its just a Heavy flamer

And grenades!

If he had EW he'd be chuck norris's daddy

Eldrad Ulthran is pretty cost effective. He costs the same as a Farseer with all the same gear, except Eldrad gets 4 Toughness, a third power use, Divination, and a power-Witchblade for free.

DarknessEternal wrote:Eldrad Ulthran is pretty cost effective. He costs the same as a Farseer with all the same gear, except Eldrad gets 4 Toughness, a third power use, Divination, and a power-Witchblade for free.

He is value-for-points, but at 210 points he isn't value for 1500pt games and below.

Dashofpepper wrote:Two words.

Ghazghkull.

Thraka.

This, a thousand times this. Ghaz is just so amazing on so many levels. He lets you take a unit of nobz as troops (to be fair, that is standard fare for any warboss, but it's still damn good), he gives you a badass Waaagh!, and he's one of the most deadly CC fighters in the game. There's just nothing that's not amazing about him.

Dashofpepper wrote:Two words.

Ghazghkull.

Thraka.

You forgot "Mag Uruk"

Tyranid Warrior Prime is a fantastic HQ character. I don't think he counts as "special" though.

I gotta agree with Marbo as a nicely priced unit. 65 points and often wrecks vehicles and squads? Yes please.

I avoid Special Characters as a rule, due to most of them being overcosted. The exception is if the character is particularly potent, gives armywide bonuses, etc.

For general-purpose use, either Creed or Eldrad work. For army-unlocking, either Wazdakka or Logan.

I'll have to agree with Ghazgull, and throw in Prince Yriel. His eye is a one just flattens an entire squad, and when in a seer council, he has a good amount of attacks at high intitative counting as S9 against vehicles and wounding on 2's... always. He gives the army an optional +1 to reserves to boot.

I'd argue that Eldrad isn't worth it, I mean, he's worth every one of those 210 points... but he costs... 210.

Well, speaking from a Codex:Space Marines perspective, there are some really bargain special characters, and a few bad ones.

First on the pack has to be Pedro. He is not a god of a character, but at 175pts he is a bargain. Some cool toys, 1+ attack force multiplier, and the ability to take scoring Stergnuard, and orbital bombardment to boot.

Close behind would be vulkan and Lysander. Vulkan gets all kinds of crazy toys for 190pts, and his chapter tactics are basicly free. Lysander's combat prowess is on par with Calgar, but lysander is 50-65pts less; so he also is a bargain.

Cassius, is also up there, you basicly get T6 fnP and some other nice rules for an extra 30 pts.

Telion is somewhat of a bargain in a 10 man sniper scout team, because cloaks would be 30pts you are essentially getting his BS 6 to aheavy weapon, acute senses, and the ability to pick off special weapons/comissars/seargents for only 20 points.

Shrike, Khan, Sicurus are ok for their points cost.

Chronus is pretty bad, nearly double the cost of the tank to bump up weapon skill by 1 and ignoring stuns and shakens. I could only justify his points cost on an expensive vehicle, but Land raiders have mostly twin linked weaponry and have machine spirit plus can take extra armor.

Calgar is not really points effective IMO. Lysander has higher str and a better invul save and costs 50-65pts less. He is just too expensive.

By far the worst is Tigurus. 230pts to get a Librarian with 3 powers per turn. Extremly overcosted for what he can do, especially when blood angels can pay 20 more points and get a massive boost in stats.

scubasteve04 wrote:Close behind would be vulkan and Lysander. Vulkan gets all kinds of crazy toys for 190pts, and his chapter tactics are basicly free. Lysander's combat prowess is on par with Calgar, but lysander is 50-65pts less; so he also is a bargain.

I wouldn't take Lysander if he didn't give stubborn to be honest.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Close behind would be vulkan and Lysander. Vulkan gets all kinds of crazy toys for 190pts, and his chapter tactics are basicly free. Lysander's combat prowess is on par with Calgar, but lysander is 50-65pts less; so he also is a bargain.

I wouldn't take Lysander if he didn't give stubborn to be honest.

That's funny.

I'd take him more if he didn't give stubborn. I like Combat Tactics better, tbh.

Do space marines really need stubborn though? They already have ATSKNF and decent LD. Whats the big advantages of stubborn?