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@niiai: Look at what you started... =)

Kevin949 wrote:Before seeing that the swarm rule is also conferred, essentially I was saying that someone could argue that scarabs do not, by rote, have "stealth" as a special rule but instead have a special rule that grants them the use of two USR's. But since swarms is conferable then the lord will also gain both Stealth and Vulnerable to blast/template weapons USR's.

Swarms gives 2 USR's one of which is stealth. GW in their weird stealth ruling made stealth apply to the entire unit but other abilities dont do this.

I love my scarab swarms. They have been my MVP in multiple games. My usual opponent is unnerved by them. A full out squad of 10 has been known to wipe out multiple squads of Eldar guardians and rangers while other Necron units were allowed to advance without being shot up. We did learn that a lot of scatter lasers can thin a scarab swarm pretty quickly though due to instant death for any unsaved hits. Still those scatter lasers aren't then shooting at my important troops. And I now know he's under pressure to bring scatter lasers. Other big battles I recall they simultaneously tarpitted a Farseer warlock squad and Scorpion squad which had to be rescued by a Wraithlord. That was three units against one while my other units were hiking across to the other side of the board after his objectives. In a game against Space Marines, the SM player didn't know what those little buggers were, but they were bee-lining for his sniper scout squad and so thought he'd just kill them off to be safe. After a lot of shooting at them, he only wounded one. I only had 8 scarabs that battle, but they killed his scout squad and drew in a dreadnought to stomp them out. The only problem was the the scarabs lasted too long so I missed the chance to shoot the dreadnought in the back with my destroyer squad. As for destroying vehicles, I find kitting the scarabs out for that is expensive and has never really been effective for me when I'd really rather have them going after weaker enemy troops. I suppose if I had a really vehicle heavy enemy (not yet) I could have them try surrounding transports to obstruct enemies trying to disembark.

Gibbsey wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Before seeing that the swarm rule is also conferred, essentially I was saying that someone could argue that scarabs do not, by rote, have "stealth" as a special rule but instead have a special rule that grants them the use of two USR's. But since swarms is conferable then the lord will also gain both Stealth and Vulnerable to blast/template weapons USR's.

Swarms gives 2 USR's one of which is stealth. GW in their weird stealth ruling made stealth apply to the entire unit but other abilities dont do this.

Well, it doesn't really matter at this point as the swarms rule is granted to the lord which means the lord gains the benefit and drawbacks of that rule. The argument is invalid now, originally I didn't think swarms was a conferable rule (don't know why it is but whatever). My original point is that, while swarms does grant the stealth USR it is still not the actual stealth USR listed in the unit profile. But again, it doesn't matter now as swarms is a conferable rule.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:@niiai: Look at what you started... =)

Yeah. Dakka is a lott like that. Big big a comunaty for the few regulators. ;-) Still some good has come out of this thread.

Kevin949 wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Before seeing that the swarm rule is also conferred, essentially I was saying that someone could argue that scarabs do not, by rote, have "stealth" as a special rule but instead have a special rule that grants them the use of two USR's. But since swarms is conferable then the lord will also gain both Stealth and Vulnerable to blast/template weapons USR's.

Swarms gives 2 USR's one of which is stealth. GW in their weird stealth ruling made stealth apply to the entire unit but other abilities dont do this.

Well, it doesn't really matter at this point as the swarms rule is granted to the lord which means the lord gains the benefit and drawbacks of that rule. The argument is invalid now, originally I didn't think swarms was a conferable rule (don't know why it is but whatever). My original point is that, while swarms does grant the stealth USR it is still not the actual stealth USR listed in the unit profile. But again, it doesn't matter now as swarms is a conferable rule.

It is.... havent heard of that, was it in a faq?

Just look at the USR's in the rulebook, the ones with an asterisk are the USR's that are lost by a character/unit when joined by a character/unit that doesn't have it. Everything else is conferable. And even if swarms is not conferable, they do have the separate rule of vulnerable to blast/template weapons (separate from swarms though it also grants that USR) which is also conferable.

That and stealth is coverable.. which has been my argument. (stealth says that the units cover saves are improved by +1 and it was FAQ'd)

Do we have any other tactics for Niiai? Ones that we don't have to have a rules war over?

wisdomseyes1 wrote:That and stealth is coverable.. which has been my argument. (stealth says that the units cover saves are improved by +1 and it was FAQ'd)

Do we have any other tactics for Niiai? Ones that we don't have to have a rules war over?

I know that stealth was conferable, from the beginning of this debate. That was never my point though. But it doesn't matter now anyway.

As for tactics for this guy, there's plenty of info on the boards already about tactics for crons. Truth is, there isn't much diversity that will work with this army. Best thing to do is not dabble in every little area. If you're gonna go with a fast army then take all the fast movers you can. If you're going with a heavy hitting army then take all the high str weaponry you can. But don't take a little of this and a little of that and expect to do well as you will ALWAYS be saying "man if I only had a few more [blank]".

Kevin949 wrote:

wisdomseyes1 wrote:That and stealth is coverable.. which has been my argument. (stealth says that the units cover saves are improved by +1 and it was FAQ'd)

Do we have any other tactics for Niiai? Ones that we don't have to have a rules war over?

I know that stealth was conferable, from the beginning of this debate. That was never my point though. But it doesn't matter now anyway.

As for tactics for this guy, there's plenty of info on the boards already about tactics for crons. Truth is, there isn't much diversity that will work with this army. Best thing to do is not dabble in every little area. If you're gonna go with a fast army then take all the fast movers you can. If you're going with a heavy hitting army then take all the high str weaponry you can. But don't take a little of this and a little of that and expect to do well as you will ALWAYS be saying "man if I only had a few more [blank]".

erm... huh?

He's saying don't play like space marines and tyranids.

Definetly specialising is the best way to go with necrons. Building an all-round list that isn't really GREAT at anything will not work with crons.