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Hello. I am curently running 2 armies. Space Wolves and Tyranids.

I am considering starting a 3rd one, and necrons seems like a good choise. (I am looking for an army that is different then the once I have. Demons looks to mutch like tyranids, as do orks.) I am also not sutch a huge fan of bying and painting tanks, so that excludes the guard. The only problem is that necrons seems so weak now, unles there is one good startegy guide out there.

Come on, nobody? :-(

Go to u-tube and look up fritz with his necrons... seriously.. he made them look good...

I have played a few games with the toasters. The monolith is similar to the Tyannofex IMO. It is indestructable.. but doesn't do as much as it should. It is great for getting your models out of danger, It is the perfect objective contester, but it is a lot of points, limiting you on what you can and can not take.

C'tans are realy realy hard to beat... but they are slow going and easy to avoid. Again.. A lot of points for what they do... and less appealing than a monolith. (I would bring a monolith over them... because the monolth actaully helps)
--- Against not so smart enemies, they can be great bullet magnets. Less shots into your poor warriors, who are your weakest link.

Warriors are your absolutely only troops choice. 360 points must be spent on them. That is a lot for 20 models (though I play tyranids and orks... so that may just be an opinion from practice) You really need to take a lot of warriors... don't spend points on elite units that cost a lot (or you can... but that leaves you very vulnrable.)

Destroyers are better than Hdestroyers, because they cost less and can come in units more than one. The number of shots makes up for the lack of a lascannon shot from the heavy destroyer. You want a lot of models to avoid phase out turn one (if you took 20 warriors... your opponent kills 15 of them andyou loose)

Scarabs are amazing in the new rules. They are realy on of the few things that got better. Turbo-boost is a 2+ coversave. Put it with a destroyerlord with warscyth and regen orb, now you have an indestructable bullet magnet. 2+ cover from turbo-boosting into your opponents mech where the destroyerlord has 2D6 to armor pen due to the warscyth. Your opponent will look at that. Also, its speed makes for great contesting as the game ends.

Objectives missions: Hold 1 objective... maybe 2... and contest everything else. Conesting with your realy tough, hard to kill units will cause problems for your oppoents.

Killpoints. Kill things. pretty obvious. Try to stay ahead. The monoliths flux arch and automated systems make it a thread that your opponent has to ignore because it takes a lot of luck to do anything to it. If your opponent does try to take it out.. it will be high strenght weapons... and those wont be going anywhere else.

The reason, from what I have heard, that necrones "suck" is not because their codex is bad. It is because in tournies... they have a very hard time getting bonus objectives, and phase out makes them very vulnrable.

agreed, check out Fritz' stuff it's sound advice.

they're bad because 5th pushes CC and with sweeping advances necrons feel the hits

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Go to u-tube and look up fritz with his necrons... seriously.. he made them look good...

I have played a few games with the toasters. The monolith is similar to the Tyannofex IMO. It is indestructable.. but doesn't do as much as it should. It is great for getting your models out of danger, It is the perfect objective contester, but it is a lot of points, limiting you on what you can and can not take.

C'tans are realy realy hard to beat... but they are slow going and easy to avoid. Again.. A lot of points for what they do... and less appealing than a monolith. (I would bring a monolith over them... because the monolth actaully helps)
--- Against not so smart enemies, they can be great bullet magnets. Less shots into your poor warriors, who are your weakest link.

Warriors are your absolutely only troops choice. 360 points must be spent on them. That is a lot for 20 models (though I play tyranids and orks... so that may just be an opinion from practice) You really need to take a lot of warriors... don't spend points on elite units that cost a lot (or you can... but that leaves you very vulnrable.)

Immortals are the best elite slot you can get and I seriously recommend a full squad of them accompanied by a foot lord in any 1500+ game. they don't leave you vulnerable as they're better than warriors in every conceivable way.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Destroyers are better than Hdestroyers, because they cost less and can come in units more than one. The number of shots makes up for the lack of a lascannon shot from the heavy destroyer. You want a lot of models to avoid phase out turn one (if you took 20 warriors... your opponent kills 15 of them andyou loose)

Heavy D's can take up to 3 to a squad, but they're still pretty useless and easily taken care of, same with regular destroyers though. The only advantage is the lower point cost and 2 more models per squad. Destroyers > H. Destroyers though.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Scarabs are amazing in the new rules. They are realy on of the few things that got better. Turbo-boost is a 2+ coversave. Put it with a destroyerlord with warscyth and regen orb, now you have an indestructable bullet magnet. 2+ cover from turbo-boosting into your opponents mech where the destroyerlord has 2D6 to armor pen due to the warscyth. Your opponent will look at that. Also, its speed makes for great contesting as the game ends.

Anything with str6+ and a blast marker + ignore cover ruins these guys. Scarabs are only good against squads with no power weapons and low strength, but their 5+ armor save+fearless is a rough combo. 120 points for semi-ablative wounds for the lord is hardly worth it considering they take up the much revered FA slot in the FOC.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Objectives missions: Hold 1 objective... maybe 2... and contest everything else. Conesting with your realy tough, hard to kill units will cause problems for your oppoents.

Killpoints. Kill things. pretty obvious. Try to stay ahead. The monoliths flux arch and automated systems make it a thread that your opponent has to ignore because it takes a lot of luck to do anything to it. If your opponent does try to take it out.. it will be high strenght weapons... and those wont be going anywhere else.

The reason, from what I have heard, that necrones "suck" is not because their codex is bad. It is because in tournies... they have a very hard time getting bonus objectives, and phase out makes them very vulnrable.

Killpoints are great for necrons, I played a game where took out as many kill points against my opponent as I had total in my army. The only benefit to crons is that, very easy to win KP games if you don't get wiped.

Necrons suck right now because of the massive amount of ordnance around and all the stuff that ignores cover and all the weapons that can be deployed in just about every army that ignore armor saves. Res orbs are handy, but they can't be everywhere and sweeping advance really f'ed crons. Or rather, the re-working of the CC rules with the bull crap -1 LD modifier for every wound you lose by. That tied with their horrifically low initiative just screwed them.

@Kevin: Not to many s6+ blasts that ignore cover... their are templates that ignore cover... but if you know your opponent has them and you are getting that close... I don't see why you haven't already charged. 2+ cover is not something to laugh at... ever (unless you are a flamer heavy vulkan army) And one slot isn't going to kill you giving a moble regen orb a retinue of 2+ saves. Tactics depend on personalities. I like mobility + survivability over strength with lack of movement (though a combination is always something I am willing to have =))

ordnance doesn't ignore cover. Barrage doesn't even ignore cover. I don't know if that is the point you are trying to get across... but it sounds like it.

I didn't say KP was bad for necrons. Just said to hide the warriors... not a bad tactic considering the only thing saving them from most fire otherwise is we'll be back... and thats hit and miss.

Just like every other army... you make you opponent make decisisions. Your tactic may work with this as well... I know mine does. Your opponent is more conserned with the lord than he is with the warriors holding one or two objectives. He wants to kill them so that they don't kill him. It is a common instint that people can't seem to surpass. Isn't that the whole tactic with wraithwing?

Imortals are good. It probably works to. I prefer my opponent aiming at something that doesn't have the necron rule... my scarrabs for example. If scarabs die.. they did their job. If they don't die.. they have a different job. They can do something. Annoy your opponent. Your opponent has the desire to shoot at them... just don't be a big mouth and ask him why... when you get into combat with the LR and your scarrabs are dishing out 20 attacks that hit on 4's and glance on 6's... that will annoy your opponont. next turn... now its 20 attacks that auto-hit (if a 4 or 6 on damage table... 33% chance) and if it does nothing.. your opponent will still shoot at them. they are there... your warriors are somewhere else.

When people create lists... they always assume your opponent knows what they are doing. that is not the case.. and I have proved that to myself many times.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:@Kevin: Not to many s6+ blasts that ignore cover... their are templates that ignore cover... but if you know your opponent has them and you are getting that close... I don't see why you haven't already charged. 2+ cover is not something to laugh at... ever (unless you are a flamer heavy vulkan army) And one slot isn't going to kill you giving a moble regen orb a retinue of 2+ saves. Tactics depend on personalities. I like mobility + survivability over strength with lack of movement (though a combination is always something I am willing to have =))

ordnance doesn't ignore cover. Barrage doesn't even ignore cover. I don't know if that is the point you are trying to get across... but it sounds like it.

I didn't say KP was bad for necrons. Just said to hide the warriors... not a bad tactic considering the only thing saving them from most fire otherwise is we'll be back... and thats hit and miss.

Just like every other army... you make you opponent make decisisions. Your tactic may work with this as well... I know mine does. Your opponent is more conserned with the lord than he is with the warriors holding one or two objectives. He wants to kill them so that they don't kill him. It is a common instint that people can't seem to surpass. Isn't that the whole tactic with wraithwing?

Imortals are good. It probably works to. I prefer my opponent aiming at something that doesn't have the necron rule... my scarrabs for example. If scarabs die.. they did their job. If they don't die.. they have a different job. They can do something. Annoy your opponent. Your opponent has the desire to shoot at them... just don't be a big mouth and ask him why... when you get into combat with the LR and your scarrabs are dishing out 20 attacks that hit on 4's and glance on 6's... that will annoy your opponont. next turn... now its 20 attacks that auto-hit (if a 4 or 6 on damage table... 33% chance) and if it does nothing.. your opponent will still shoot at them. they are there... your warriors are somewhere else.

When people create lists... they always assume your opponent knows what they are doing. that is not the case.. and I have proved that to myself many times.

Didn't say that 2+ cover was anything to laugh at or whatever, but it's a very simple thing to get around. And barrage absolutely does ignore cover as the hit is resolved from the center of the template, not from the firers gun as with ordnance. If the blast lands in the terrain you're occupying, or typically right on top of your guys, you get no cover save.

Didn't say you did say KP was bad for necrons, just because I was debating your other points doesn't mean I wasn't agreeing with some of what you said.

See, I mostly play against marines so everyone has PoTMS and other crap. Scarabs are probably decent against other armies but they've proven to be fairly useless against marines. They kick ass in kill team though, or whatever it was called.

Rofl... turboboost = coversave... not cover. You don't ignore a 2+ coversave from turbobosting except using templates or something that specifically says that coversaves can not be taken. That is probably why they are not usefull to you...

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Rofl... turboboost = coversave... not cover. You don't ignore a 2+ coversave from turbobosting except using templates or something that specifically says that coversaves can not be taken. That is probably why they are not usefull to you...

So sorry I forgot to add the word "save". *rolls eyes* As for the rest of your post, I don't get what you're saying here. You pretty much just rehashed what I said, and assaulting a unit that has turbo boosted will also deny the 2+ cover SAVE not just blast/template weapons that specify they ignore cover.

And yes, considering I play against armies that have quite a number of options for weapons that ignore cover, that is exactly why scarabs are useless to me. And any other necron player should be made aware of their armies weaknesses more so than their strengths so they best know how to bolster their tactics or better understand what to take in conjunction with other models to limit these weaknesses.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Turbo-boost is a 2+ coversave. Put it with a destroyerlord with warscyth and regen orb, now you have an indestructable bullet magnet. 2+ cover from turbo-boosting into your opponents mech where the destroyerlord has 2D6 to armor pen due to the warscyth

This is great for tarpitting and destroying tanks.

Also a lord with a veil + warriors + monolith combo is good, get enemy to assault warriors then veil out and blast with monolith template.

Veil and monolith teleport is a great way to get your warriors out of trouble and give them rerolls

Kevin949 wrote:

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Rofl... turboboost = coversave... not cover. You don't ignore a 2+ coversave from turbobosting except using templates or something that specifically says that coversaves can not be taken. That is probably why they are not usefull to you...

So sorry I forgot to add the word "save". *rolls eyes* As for the rest of your post, I don't get what you're saying here. You pretty much just rehashed what I said, and assaulting a unit that has turbo boosted will also deny the 2+ cover SAVE not just blast/template weapons that specify they ignore cover.

And yes, considering I play against armies that have quite a number of options for weapons that ignore cover, that is exactly why scarabs are useless to me. And any other necron player should be made aware of their armies weaknesses more so than their strengths so they best know how to bolster their tactics or better understand what to take in conjunction with other models to limit these weaknesses.

barrage weapons do not ignore cover saves if something gains a cover save... no matter where the point of origin of the marker is, you get a coversave
and if you turbo-boost... that is a 24" movement that you are going to spend getting into range for your opponent to assault you? Why?

wisdomseyes1 wrote:
barrage weapons do not ignore cover saves if something gains a cover save... no matter where the point of origin of the marker is, you get a coversave
and if you turbo-boost... that is a 24" movement that you are going to spend getting into range for your opponent to assault you? Why?

And you spend your 24" movement doing what, running from the enemy? You can't assault after that boost and scarabs have no ranged weapons (which you also couldn't use if they did have them). If your opponent is smart they're either running squads in their vehicles or are also screening them with infantry to deny an assault on their vehicles or make it harder for you to get to them. Or your opponent is running their vehicles straight at you to launch an assault on you with the troops inside. Which would be smart of them since necrons get destroyed in CC.

For the 180 points you spend on scarabs I'd rather have another squad of warriors that will likely survive much longer and have the same effect on vehicles from 24" away, though obviously less shots but all it takes is one glance to succeed in damage mitigation against you.

Also I'm done arguing the point of ordnance barrage weapons with you, you obviously don't get it.

@Kevin949

While Ordnance barrage weapons DO draw LoS from the center of the of the template, if something has turbo-boosted you get a cover save no matter what.

It doesnt matter if the fire is coming from left, right, front, back or even on top....if you turbo-boosted you get dat save.

Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

OP:

#1: There's a 10 page thread on Necron tactics here. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/310956.page

#2: My Wraith Wing, and how I use them: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314352.page

Gibbsey wrote:Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

Yes, it is majority best save of the unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Frying Dutchman wrote:@Kevin949

While Ordnance barrage weapons DO draw LoS from the center of the of the template, if something has turbo-boosted you get a cover save no matter what.

It doesnt matter if the fire is coming from left, right, front, back or even on top....if you turbo-boosted you get dat save.

Hm...I may have to bring this up with my local barrager then because they also seem to be under the wrong impression.

Gibbsey wrote:Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

There is no such thing as a majority save. Each model's save is unique, since you allocate to them individually. So no, the Lord doesn't gain a 2+ cover save.

haizelhoff wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

There is no such thing as a majority save. Each model's save is unique, since you allocate to them individually. So no, the Lord doesn't gain a 2+ cover save.

Oh right, was thinking majority toughness.

haizelhoff wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

There is no such thing as a majority save. Each model's save is unique, since you allocate to them individually. So no, the Lord doesn't gain a 2+ cover save.

It was something to do with an FAQ ruling about stealth being granted to joined IC's, which would mean the lord gained their small target ability which would give him a 2+. Or at least thats what some people were saying

Gibbsey wrote:

haizelhoff wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

There is no such thing as a majority save. Each model's save is unique, since you allocate to them individually. So no, the Lord doesn't gain a 2+ cover save.

It was something to do with an FAQ ruling about stealth being granted to joined IC's, which would mean the lord gained their small target ability which would give him a 2+. Or at least thats what some people were saying

True, but that's not "majority save". It's just what his save would be with the stealth rule conferred upon the IC. I'm sure some would argue though that since it's not actually the stealth rule, he wouldn't get to benefit. As it is a separate rule that has two abilities, one just happening to be stealth but it is not actually stealth that they have. It is small target. This make sense?

Not really... they are swarms and swarms have the stealth rule... it says in the swarms rule that they have stealth... and stealth is covered to an IC... I don't see how it is argued?

Kevin949 wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

haizelhoff wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:Also i think now if the destroyer lord joins the squad and they turbo boost they all get a 2+ cover save, scarabs are there to soak up wounds and glance things to death

There is no such thing as a majority save. Each model's save is unique, since you allocate to them individually. So no, the Lord doesn't gain a 2+ cover save.

It was something to do with an FAQ ruling about stealth being granted to joined IC's, which would mean the lord gained their small target ability which would give him a 2+. Or at least thats what some people were saying

True, but that's not "majority save". It's just what his save would be with the stealth rule conferred upon the IC. I'm sure some would argue though that since it's not actually the stealth rule, he wouldn't get to benefit. As it is a separate rule that has two abilities, one just happening to be stealth but it is not actually stealth that they have. It is small target. This make sense?

Ah they have stealth aswell as small target

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Not really... they are swarms and swarms have the stealth rule... it says in the swarms rule that they have stealth... and stealth is covered to an IC... I don't see how it is argued?

Because small target is NOT stealth, it only grants the stealth USR to that unit. Small target is not conferred to IC's joining a unit however. Yes, stealth is conferred onto a unit or IC's that joined or are joined by a unit with stealth, but again scarabs do not have stealth.

Kevin949 wrote:

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Not really... they are swarms and swarms have the stealth rule... it says in the swarms rule that they have stealth... and stealth is covered to an IC... I don't see how it is argued?

Because small target is NOT stealth, it only grants the stealth USR to that unit. Small target is not conferred to IC's joining a unit however. Yes, stealth is conferred onto a unit or IC's that joined or are joined by a unit with stealth, but again scarabs do not have stealth.

I cannot remember whether the FAQ instructed to refer to the BRB for swarm special rules. If not, then codex goes before BRB and scarabs don't have stealth, they merely have a +1 to cover saves.

Scarab Swarms (p. 19)
Q. Are Scarab Swarms swarms, as described in
the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook?
A. Yes

Copy pasted from FAQ if you want to check... they are swarms... no argument. And acording to the rulebook FAQ
Q: If only some of the models in a unit have the Stealth
special rule, does the whole unit benefit from the +1 cover
save? (p76)
A: Yes. In effect the ones with the Stealth special rule
ensure their colleagues also find good places to hide.

5th page. If you want to check.

On page 76 of the rulebook, the rule swarms says, "Swarms represent creatures that are too puny to be an indevidual threat on the battlefield... All swarms have the 'stealth' and 'vulnerable to blast templates' special rules...." I still don't understand how their is an argument...

You do not get it, they do NOT HAVE STEALTH THEY HAVE SWARMS AND SMALL TARGET!!!

Yes they HAVE SWARMS. Read swarms and tell me that swarms doesn't say that they HAVE stealth. I bet you if you read page 76.. it says under swarms, that a unit with swarms HAS 2 special rules. One of with IS stealth.

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Yes they HAVE SWARMS. Read swarms and tell me that swarms doesn't say that they HAVE stealth. I bet you if you read page 76.. it says under swarms, that a unit with swarms HAS 2 special rules. One of with IS stealth.

Indeed it does. But this does not mean they HAVE stealth, they have a different ability that lets them utilize stealth but they do not have STEALTH as an actual USR, they simply benefit from it.

Consequently this is all moot as I was reading the rulebook and apparently the Swarms rule AND the vulnerable to blast/template weapons rule are conferable to joining/joined units, so that means that a lord joined to a scarab unit (according to this book) will take double wounds from blast/template weapons. Unless of course there was a GW faq about this that I'm recalling at the moment.

Kevin949 wrote:

wisdomseyes1 wrote:Yes they HAVE SWARMS. Read swarms and tell me that swarms doesn't say that they HAVE stealth. I bet you if you read page 76.. it says under swarms, that a unit with swarms HAS 2 special rules. One of with IS stealth.

Indeed it does. But this does not mean they HAVE stealth, they have a different ability that lets them utilize stealth but they do not have STEALTH as an actual USR, they simply benefit from it.

Consequently this is all moot as I was reading the rulebook and apparently the Swarms rule AND the vulnerable to blast/template weapons rule are conferable to joining/joined units, so that means that a lord joined to a scarab unit (according to this book) will take double wounds from blast/template weapons. Unless of course there was a GW faq about this that I'm recalling at the moment.

so they gain stealth from swarms but its not passed onto the lord is what your saying?

Before seeing that the swarm rule is also conferred, essentially I was saying that someone could argue that scarabs do not, by rote, have "stealth" as a special rule but instead have a special rule that grants them the use of two USR's. But since swarms is conferable then the lord will also gain both Stealth and Vulnerable to blast/template weapons USR's.