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Yeah if you give one crusader seal then the whole must be given them, but you do not have to give the squad seals, thats the impression i got anyhoo

Just work around that restriction by putting your HQ with a Troops squad. Or just accept the points cost (10 points for a 5 man, 20 for a 10)

Emperors Champion                                      140
   Accept the challenge.. 50


Elites:
Terminator squad                                        450
   Thunder Hammer x 2   Free
   Lightning Claws x 3   Free
      Mounted in Landraider 250

Dreadnought                                             130
   Venerable 20
   Extra Armour 5 

Dreadnought                                             105


Troops:
Crusader Squad x 9                                    219
   Power fist 15
   Meltagun 10
   Mounted in Rhino 50

Crusader Squad x 10                                   235
   Power fist 15
   Meltagun 10
   Mounted in Rhino 50

Crusader Squad x 10                                   235
   Power fist 15
   Meltagun 10
   Mounted in Rhino 50

Crusader Squad x 10                                   235
   Power fist 15
   Meltagun 10
   Mounted in Rhino 50


Heavy Support:
Vindicator                                                125

Vindicator                                                125


This is how I have my Templar list and they are on average 75% to win depending on dice roll or just stupid plays on my part. I realize this is a 2k army list bout you figure you could drop the venerable& vindicator it's a solid list the vindicators and land raiders usually confuse enemies what to shot first and dreads well you know they are there just to annoy the enemy hahaha I also have a sister and BT army list which is even funnier to play

Yeah it sucks we have to buy our nades, but w/e. Most of the time you don't need them.

When you want to know if the entire squad or not has to take crusader seals, don't look at the armoury. It's worded that way because it was quite possible that of your 20 man squad, you are down to one initiate with a seal and 10 neophytes; or when one of our ICs join a squad. Look only at the unit entry, and although it's worded different than frag/krak entry, it means the same thing. ALL Initiates in the squad may be given seals. That's the key wording. If it said, "An Initiate may be given seals at.." then they may be taken one at a time, per model. As it is, the wording is ALL, so ALL must be given seals if you give one seals. Sucks but again, w/e as most the time they allready benefit from an IC joining them or you just end up not needing them in the unit.

Also I've seen and fielded 2 landraiders myself in 2k or less. The problem is that it limits what tactics you can do, is ultra- , but can actually work pretty dang well as you're safe from most everything but lance and melta. I don't advise it,but it can be done if you have a couple-3 hundred points left after a solid core

You can't take just the emperor's champion as an HQ i'm afraid, since it says in codex he DOESN'T take up an HQ slot.

Land raiders with Blessed Hull:

Expensive but SO worth it against Eldar and Dark Eldar. Against melta Blessed Hull doesn't do anything, so the tactic there is kill his melta units before they get close enough to use them on you. You'll be amazed how many penetrating hits melta get against AV14!

Your list Nettik:

Congrats on choosing black templars. I'm creating a BT style army myself so wishing you good luck with them!

HQ

You need a Castellan/Marshal or Reclusiarch/Master of Sanctity to fill an HQ slot. The Emperor's Champion is a unit you aren't allowed not to have, but doesn't take up an HQ slot.
Consider where your HQ are going. Are they going with your Terminators, or with your Crusader squads? With the Terminators they'll make a good CC unit, with the troops (outfitted right) they can take out units at range and give them better chances in CC.

ELITES

Terminators:
Your terminators riding in a land raider. That sounds ok....but be aware that your LR doesn't have a MM, so you're relying on your t-l lascannons to take out armour, and your t-l heavy bolters aren't as effective as t-l assault cannons. My advice would be this:
Give the Terminators Furious Charge. This means they'll be hitting at I5 for the lightning claws, and Str 9 for the THs!
Give them a Crusader. Even if you move you can still fire all weapons. And if you move 12" you can fire your MM due to POTMS. This means you can hit an enemy tank or transport from 36" away with a Multi-melta!

Venerable Dreadnought:
Venerable Dreadnoughts are really deadly taken as a gun platform with tank hunters and extra armour because:
Str 10 T-L Lascannon
Str 9 Missile Launcher
Can ask opponent to reroll any damage result.
Any stunned result gets reduced to shaken so you can still fire next turn.
All for 170 points...

Dreadnought:
With the other suggestions I've made I think you'd have to drop this dreadnought. But he's only got a 24" range and not venerable so not so effective IMO.


TROOPS

Crusader squads look ok. I'd personally change the meltaguns to plasma guns as they have greater range and rapid fire, but YMMV on this idea.
No Crusader Seals for the last 2 crusader squads? What happens when your rhino gets wrecked on turn 2 and you're on foot and taking casualties? Zeal moves left right and centre with no way to stop it. 2 points a seal is ANNOYING, but it means you can stop your guys moving out of cover for example.

HEAVY SUPPORT.

2 Vindicators:

Extra armour would be nice. 10 points for being able to fire even if a stunned result comes up.

What I would say for ALL your transports and tanks is SMOKE LAUNCHERS. 3 points for the ability to change a penetrating hit to a glancing hit!
Rhino moves 12", pops smoke, gets hit by a dark lance. Lance rolls a 4, meaning a penetrating hit. Rolls a 4 for immobilised. Smoke launcher means it gets reduced to 2, then melta means +1. Result, a wrecked rhino becomes a rhino without its storm bolter.

Corennus wrote:You can't take just the emperor's champion as an HQ i'm afraid, since it says in codex he DOESN'T take up an HQ slot.

Actually he does count as your mandatory choice. It's covered in the FAQ.

Corennus wrote:You can't take just the emperor's champion as an HQ i'm afraid, since it says in codex he DOESN'T take up an HQ slot.

Land raiders with Blessed Hull:

Expensive but SO worth it against Eldar and Dark Eldar. Against melta Blessed Hull doesn't do anything, so the tactic there is kill his melta units before they get close enough to use them on you. You'll be amazed how many penetrating hits melta get against AV14!

Your list Nettik:

Congrats on choosing black templars. I'm creating a BT style army myself so wishing you good luck with them!

HQ

You need a Castellan/Marshal or Reclusiarch/Master of Sanctity to fill an HQ slot. The Emperor's Champion is a unit you aren't allowed not to have, but doesn't take up an HQ slot.
Consider where your HQ are going. Are they going with your Terminators, or with your Crusader squads? With the Terminators they'll make a good CC unit, with the troops (outfitted right) they can take out units at range and give them better chances in CC.

ELITES

Terminators:
Your terminators riding in a land raider. That sounds ok....but be aware that your LR doesn't have a MM, so you're relying on your t-l lascannons to take out armour, and your t-l heavy bolters aren't as effective as t-l assault cannons. My advice would be this:
Give the Terminators Furious Charge. This means they'll be hitting at I5 for the lightning claws, and Str 9 for the THs!
Give them a Crusader. Even if you move you can still fire all weapons. And if you move 12" you can fire your MM due to POTMS. This means you can hit an enemy tank or transport from 36" away with a Multi-melta!

Venerable Dreadnought:
Venerable Dreadnoughts are really deadly taken as a gun platform with tank hunters and extra armour because:
Str 10 T-L Lascannon
Str 9 Missile Launcher
Can ask opponent to reroll any damage result.
Any stunned result gets reduced to shaken so you can still fire next turn.
All for 170 points...

Dreadnought:
With the other suggestions I've made I think you'd have to drop this dreadnought. But he's only got a 24" range and not venerable so not so effective IMO.


TROOPS

Crusader squads look ok. I'd personally change the meltaguns to plasma guns as they have greater range and rapid fire, but YMMV on this idea.
No Crusader Seals for the last 2 crusader squads? What happens when your rhino gets wrecked on turn 2 and you're on foot and taking casualties? Zeal moves left right and centre with no way to stop it. 2 points a seal is ANNOYING, but it means you can stop your guys moving out of cover for example.

HEAVY SUPPORT.

2 Vindicators:

Extra armour would be nice. 10 points for being able to fire even if a stunned result comes up.

What I would say for ALL your transports and tanks is SMOKE LAUNCHERS. 3 points for the ability to change a penetrating hit to a glancing hit!
Rhino moves 12", pops smoke, gets hit by a dark lance. Lance rolls a 4, meaning a penetrating hit. Rolls a 4 for immobilised. Smoke launcher means it gets reduced to 2, then melta means +1. Result, a wrecked rhino becomes a rhino without its storm bolter.

Corennus: Again for the EC check your thread about that so HQ doesnt need modification

Elites: they are in a LR for a reason, what do you think i will be shooting at with my TL LC hmm mainly transport models. so their armour is junk, so their troops have to walk then termys assualt. Furious charge isnt needed the terminators. thy arent ment to take out tanks and str 8 is good enough to insta kill most anything out there. i only have 2 TH/SS so i can allocate most the wounds to then and allow my LC to destroy a squad. i have the 2 Dreads with AC for anti troops/bikes nice little rending to if i have to shoot at a vehicle lascannons are good to to expensive as an upgrade. who needs drop pods tho that just gets ur dread destroyed faster i got 24 range str6 ap4 hvy4 rending=beastly

Also for the melta for the LRC you have to be 12 in away from your or you are shooting a non TL shot at -1str

Troops: Plasma is out man, Melta is the new black everyone takes them i got a str 8 ap1 shot and boom "u know he dead" not to mention they are nasty against vehicles and why risk lossing one of my HTH models to a plasma over heating.I think you are playing house rules for Crusader seals to btw seals just let you reroll the dice see how far you go not to mention you dont have to take the full movement who says how far i moved my model i could move it a cm. The rhinos are just there to prtect tehm from going up the field if it blows up eh w/e it got them a bit closer so i can charge. And just for you new BT players if your rhino blew up and you got men on the field with no cover... GO TO GROUND Righteous Zeal over rights the after effect of going to ground that is if you loss some guys

Heavy support: please please Corennheus go rererereread the codex till you have it memorized then rereread it again because Xtra armour only makes a Crew Stunned turn to a Crew Shaken (still cant shoot) and if there is any upgardes you would want to buy for the vindicators is Power of the Machine spirit so you can.... thats right still shoot even if your stunned

Corennus wrote: What I would say for ALL your transports and tanks is SMOKE LAUNCHERS. 3 points for the ability to change a penetrating hit to a glancing hit!
Rhino moves 12", pops smoke, gets hit by a dark lance. Lance rolls a 4, meaning a penetrating hit. Rolls a 4 for immobilised. Smoke launcher means it gets reduced to 2, then melta means +1. Result, a wrecked rhino becomes a rhino without its storm bolter.

i honestly had to re quote that cause i thought i read it wrong.... you are right about there should be smoke launchers but the way i play this list the rhinos are coverd by the LR so i get the cover save on them. now this is where some one should of imformed you that the new RB ie 5th edition supersedes what the BT codex says Smoke launchers just give a vehicle a cover save it doesnt effect penetration or glancing. so the hole equation isnt needed

Well it appears i was wrong about that one, goes to show read the full rules srry Corennus. i dont wanna delete it just to show everone makes mistakes

Corennus: its nice to help people out but if you arent reali an expert at an army it would be smart to check your codex as you type






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyranic Marta wrote:Yeah if you give one crusader seal then the whole must be given them, but you do not have to give the squad seals, thats the impression i got anyhoo

Actualy if you give on intiate then they all are affected by them =D
Page 27 BT codex
Just cause it says all doesnt meen you have to give them to all of em

Codex:

Emperor's Champion does NOT take up an HQ slot.

Mandatory force selection is 1 HQ and 2 Troops.

Therefore as far as I can see the Emperor's Champion cannot be taken as a solitary HQ since he doesn't fulfil the criteria of filling the HQ slot.


AS for Crusader Seals. Page 27 of the Codex means HQ with a Crusader Seal going with a Troop or Elite squad means the squad doesn't have to take Seals. If they aren't with an HQ then if you want Crusader Seals all initiates have to take them

Corennus wrote:Codex:

Emperor's Champion does NOT take up an HQ slot.

Mandatory force selection is 1 HQ and 2 Troops.

Therefore as far as I can see the Emperor's Champion cannot be taken as a solitary HQ since he doesn't fulfil the criteria of filling the HQ slot.


AS for Crusader Seals. Page 27 of the Codex means HQ with a Crusader Seal going with a Troop or Elite squad means the squad doesn't have to take Seals. If they aren't with an HQ then if you want Crusader Seals all initiates have to take them

Did you read the FAQ for BT? please do and page 27isnt just for IC its not IC armoury its the Armys wargear ie 1 Crusader seal is goodfor the entire squad.

ii could understand you being new to the army not knowing the loop holes in the army. but this his already been said in this thread and its been repeated seveal time for the EC

Corennus wrote:The Destructors should be firing lascannons every turn, but have smoke launchers if the enemy bring a lot of anti-tank (forego a turn shooting for a 4+ cover save)

Black Templar have the old smoke launchers. Ours are not a 4+ cover save but instead glancing hits only. BRB says use individual codex rules for launchers if they have them and ours does under the armory.

And yes the EC can be taken as the only HQ if so desired.

TakamineG wrote: Black Templar have the old smoke launchers. Ours are not a 4+ cover save but instead glancing hits only. BRB says use individual codex rules for launchers if they have them and ours does under the armory.

Thanks for pointing that out i made that mistake woops but i dont use them so haha

Yeah it's pretty common so no one is alone on that

Okay, let me just cover some things for everyone viewing this post...

1)You don't have to move the entire Righteous Zeal move, it's UP TO which means you tap the model and it counts for the movement.
2)One seal will effect the entire squad, however all Initiates must take seals if you give one seals. The wording in the Armoury DOES NOT EFFECT THE UNIT ENTRY. Crusader Squads entry states that the INITIATES in the squad may take the seals, at two points a model.
3)Third, the Emperor's Champion does fill our mandatory HQ slot, read the FAQ.
4)MultiMelta's don't become twinlinked at 12", they roll 2D6 for Armour Pen
5)Our PotMS only works if you moved 6" or less. Read the entry, it allows the vehicle to fire an additional weapon as long as it hasn't moved more than 6". And this shot is only at BS2, so best to use it on the AssaultCannon due to it being twin-linked.
6)BRB states to use individual codex rules over its rules, meaning that we still have the old smoke rules, which are way better.

As for melta vs. plasma, take a melta. Plasma has anti-infantry down, but unfortuanetly you can not shoot it and then charge into CC, which is where you're going to be. The melta can take out transport and then the squad charges into the unit that disembarks. Melta can take out a dred, AV14, or any non-EternalWarrior T4> in one shot...Plasma is left in the dust. Unless a squad is going to be stationary, don't take a plasma over a melta.

thank you Kervhart. you have put things most succinctly.

MarshalKervhart wrote:Okay, let me just cover some things for everyone viewing this post...

1)You don't have to move the entire Righteous Zeal move, it's UP TO which means you tap the model and it counts for the movement.

To be fair, you don't even have to tap it, you can just choose not to move at all.

MarshalKervhart wrote:5)Our PotMS only works if you moved 6" or less. Read the entry, it allows the vehicle to fire an additional weapon as long as it hasn't moved more than 6". And this shot is only at BS2, so best to use it on the AssaultCannon due to it being twin-linked.
6)BRB states to use individual codex rules over its rules, meaning that we still have the old smoke rules, which are way better.

Regarding these two, refer to the recent Errata update. Since this post was from the 6th of January, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't know it was updated, just as I didn't at the time.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Regarding these two, refer to the recent Errata update. Since this post was from the 6th of January, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't know it was updated, just as I didn't at the time.

You are correct, I hadn't found out about the FAQ until the 14th, after a I got home from playing a game with a command squad that I had gone, "Nah, Apothecary ain't worth it." If only I had known sooner...


And you do have to tap it. It's a required move, but up to X". So 0.00001" fullfills the movement, however you have to touch the model for it to have moved that 0.00001". Dumb but w/e, some tournies and some players have sticks up their about it.

MarshalKervhart wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Regarding these two, refer to the recent Errata update. Since this post was from the 6th of January, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't know it was updated, just as I didn't at the time.

You are correct, I hadn't found out about the FAQ until the 14th, after a I got home from playing a game with a command squad that I had gone, "Nah, Apothecary ain't worth it." If only I had known sooner...


And you do have to tap it. It's a required move, but up to X". So 0.00001" fullfills the movement, however you have to touch the model for it to have moved that 0.00001". Dumb but w/e, some tournies and some players have sticks up their about it.

Wouldn't "up to D6 inches" mean any distance from 0 to D6 inches?