Iron Hands?

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**Emperors Faithful**

Well, to be fair the Dalai Lama would have to have convinced a great portion of the world to join in his heretic schemes. Like the US and Indonesia or something. If it had been just a small break out an Inquisitor would have dealt with it and, if push came to shove, the PDF should have been able to hold their own.

**BluntmanDC**

shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

**Maurin**

1hadhq wrote:
shrike wrote:
1hadhq wrote:
shrike wrote:Istvaan? Yeah, they were there. nearly caused the deaths of the raven guard and salamanders, too. resulted in Corax and vulkan dissappearing. good job.

Got the dates a bit wrong?

Corax was present at the debate of the second founding/ use of codex astartes, this happend after the Heresy ended.
Corax left after rebuilding the Raven Guard.

uh, no he wasn't. he used forbidden gene acceleration soon after, causing monsters, then he killed each one, spent a year and a day in the highest chamber in the ravenspire and flew into the eye of terror, never to be seen again.

Oh he was. He's just that sneaky.

Codex Black Templars, page 6, Second founding, lists the Primarchs attending to the discussion if the Legions should be split into chapters like Gullyman intended.

Those were:

supporting Dorn to keep the Legions united:
- Leman Russ of the Space Wolves
- Vulkan of the Salamanders
- Rogal Dorn of the Imperial Fists

supporting Gullyman to split the Legio's:
- Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars
- Corax of the Raven Guard
- Roboute Gullyman of the Ultramarines

How should Corax support Gullyman there if he had already left?
Per 'youtube' directly from EoT???

I am sure you're aware of Corax consent to split his Legio.

Plus, Index astartes / Raven Guard ( WD ) states Corax welcomed the new way of splitting Legios into chapters and the first 3 chapters mentioned as
successors are the black guard, revilers and raptors. It also says he went to the Ravenspire to ask his Emperor to forgive him his treatment of the Legion
he was in charge of.....AFTER the secound founding!

Order of events,

Please remember the secound founding happened 7 years after Horus death.

-

Yeah, Corax fought through thew whole heresy. It wasn't until after the legions were split, exactly a year later I believe, that he departed

**shrike**

year and a day.
>smack<
"how dare you forget!"
>smack<

**Maurin**

shrike wrote:year and a day.
>smack<
"how dare you forget!"
>smack<

Incorrect, my good friend!

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=316

Under the post-heresy section, it says "he locked himself in the highest room of the Ravenspire for a year to the day". A year to the day, not a year plus a day

**shrike**

...
>smack<
"how dare I forget!"
>smack<

**Commander Endova**

BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

**Emperors Faithful**

Commander Endova wrote:
BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

Not true. The Space Wolves maybe, but that's only becuase they have a history of defying the administratum both out of honour and for kicks. Bluntly, the reason that Ultras and Salamanders wouldn't do it is because they lack the dangly bits to do so and after defeating the enemy would bugger off, letting the Grim Justice of the Imperial follow up forces to do its job. Iron Hands loved their job, finished it, then took it a step further. Dedication!

**Lexx**

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Commander Endova wrote:
BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

Not true. The Space Wolves maybe, but that's only becuase they have a history of defying the administratum both out of honour and for kicks. Bluntly, the reason that Ultras and Salamanders wouldn't do it is because they lack the dangly bits to do so and after defeating the enemy would bugger off, letting the Grim Justice of the Imperial follow up forces to do its job. Iron Hands loved their job, finished it, then took it a step further. Dedication!

Very well said. It's a fanaticism I think only rivalled by the black templars!

**marvlev**

Commander Endova wrote:
BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

Tolerance is a sign of weakness.
Forgiveness is a sign of weakness.
Mercy is a sign of weakness.

**shrike**

buying girl scout cookies is a sign of weakness.
not killing your grandmother after she buys you another pair of socks for christmas is a sign of weakness.
listing signs of weakness is a sign of weakness.

**Commander Endova**

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Commander Endova wrote:
BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

Not true. The Space Wolves maybe, but that's only becuase they have a history of defying the administratum both out of honour and for kicks. Bluntly, the reason that Ultras and Salamanders wouldn't do it is because they lack the dangly bits to do so and after defeating the enemy would bugger off, letting the Grim Justice of the Imperial follow up forces to do its job. Iron Hands loved their job, finished it, then took it a step further. Dedication!

I disagree. Well, I agree with what you said about Space Wolves.

But I disagree with you on the Salamanders and the Ultramarines. Slamander's are particularly well know for taking care of civilians. Let's not forget Armageddon, where they voluntarily stayed behind to preform protection duties for escaping refugees, while other chapters where far too concerned with glory to be bothered with protecting Imperial lives. After reading the Ultramarines Omnibus, I can't beleive they'd prefeorm such a callous act, either. Especially if Uriel Ventris was leading the charge. Here is a man who risked life and limb to stop an Inquisitor from virus bombing a planet.

**marvlev**

shrike wrote:buying girl scout cookies is a sign of weakness.
not killing your grandmother after she buys you another pair of socks for christmas is a sign of weakness.
listing signs of weakness is a sign of weakness.

**shrike**

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Commander Endova wrote:
BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

Not true. The Space Wolves maybe, but that's only becuase they have a history of defying the administratum both out of honour and for kicks. Bluntly, the reason that Ultras and Salamanders wouldn't do it is because they lack the dangly bits to do so and after defeating the enemy would bugger off, letting the Grim Justice of the Imperial follow up forces to do its job. Iron Hands loved their job, finished it, then took it a step further. Dedication!

the salamanders are especially well known for taking care of civilians.
ultra's...not so much. depends who's taking part.
agemann- no.
sicarius- no.
ventris- yes.
calgar- if we go by his fluff, he is a caring, kind, noble man who has a happy child in one hand and crushing an ork in the other. He is perfect in every possible way.
really? no. he'll be too concerned with glory and pride to do anything but pose on a mound of bodies for an invisible cheering crowd that only he can see, made up of rowboat, the emperor, all the other heroes of the ultras and some crying chaos. If there is an injured ork crawling along to his left, and a crying baby in a burning building his right, he'd back up into the burning building and run full pelt up to the ork and jump on it, elbow first, before bowing to afore mentioned crowd and saying stuff like "oh, you're too kind."

**Klawz**

At above:
How much of that is canon and how much is your own personal hatred for the Ultramarines?

**shrike**

Klawz wrote:At above:
How much of that is canon and how much is your own personal hatred for the Ultramarines?

21% canon, 77% hatred.
the other 2% is general hatred for anything mainstream.

**Klawz**

shrike wrote:
Klawz wrote:At above:
How much of that is canon and how much is your own personal hatred for the Ultramarines?

21% canon, 77% hatred.
the other 2% is general hatred for anything mainstream.

well, It's Popular, Now it Sucks.

**shrike**

?!
that's a pretty random link.

**Klawz**

shrike wrote:?!
that's a pretty random link.

No, not really. It describes your sentiment.

**shrike**

I am popular, now I suck, or my post is popular, now it sucks? 'coz neither is popular.*
*and neither sucks.

**Klawz**

shrike wrote:I am popular, now I suck, or my post is popular, now it sucks? 'coz neither is popular.*
*and neither sucks.

No. You hate ultras, mostly because ultras are popular. I'm describing your mindset, not your post.

**Emperors Faithful**

Commander Endova wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
Commander Endova wrote:
BluntmanDC wrote:
shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

the Iron Hands actually were pretty leanient, there are alot of imperial officials that would have cleansed the world completely and transported over aload of hive worlders to restart the population

That's a pretty hard pill to swallow when chapters like the Ultras, Space Wolves and Slamanders wouldn't have killed anyone they didn't have too, and would probably stand against any of the Imperial Officials that tried to cleanse the planet.

Not true. The Space Wolves maybe, but that's only becuase they have a history of defying the administratum both out of honour and for kicks. Bluntly, the reason that Ultras and Salamanders wouldn't do it is because they lack the dangly bits to do so and after defeating the enemy would bugger off, letting the Grim Justice of the Imperial follow up forces to do its job. Iron Hands loved their job, finished it, then took it a step further. Dedication!

I disagree. Well, I agree with what you said about Space Wolves.

But I disagree with you on the Salamanders and the Ultramarines. Slamander's are particularly well know for taking care of civilians. Let's not forget Armageddon, where they voluntarily stayed behind to preform protection duties for escaping refugees, while other chapters where far too concerned with glory to be bothered with protecting Imperial lives. After reading the Ultramarines Omnibus, I can't beleive they'd prefeorm such a callous act, either. Especially if Uriel Ventris was leading the charge. Here is a man who risked life and limb to stop an Inquisitor from virus bombing a planet.

I didn't say that they'd commit the act themselves. The Salamanders certainly don't have a reputation for callousness. However, the idea that they'd stay behind after defeating the deamon forces and defy the Administratum over this is laughable. They would likely take the stance of 'Willfull Ignorance', and try not to think about what the black-armoured guards were rounding people up for when they left. Space Wolves can only get away with it becuase they are basically still a legion, and even then things look very heated, to the point where excommunicate declarations look possible.

**necrongod**

if you want detailed info, read fulgrim that has some good stuff.