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I plan to start a new Iron Hands army soon, but haven't read into them much.

For someone who could give me a quick insight; what are the traits of this chapter? Other than extensive use of bionics, what other thing does the chapter specialize in?

Thanks, all help is appreciated!

Edited for sp.

The have a larger number of dreadnoughts, seeing it as the ultimate fusion of flesh and machine.

What do you mean by biotics?

Sorry sorry sorry, meant bionic limbs!

Bionic, perhaps?
Try looking at Lexicanum for some stuff. Also, I believe they use a lot of Thunderhammers.

Here you go;

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Iron_Hands

Okay, so aside from bionics (got it right this time), I should go for thunder hammers and dreads. First place I looked was lexicanum, not too helpful - just mentioned techmarines and iron fathers instead of chaplains I think.

Thanks guys.

The Wiki has some more info on them;

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Hands



Noted things from skimming;

No Chaplains, as an Iron Father (Tech Marine) fills both roles

There is no Scout Company for new recruits, instead each Clan Company must recruit its own Neophytes from the Medusan clans linked to the Company to remain at strength. Upon indoctrination, the left hand of each Neophyte is replaced with a cybernetic replacement, the beginning of a mechanisation process that will continue for the rest of their lives.

Dreadnoughts and Terminators are rarely used by the Iron Hands because many of these Veteran cyborgs and the ancient suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armour used by Terminators were lost in the Drop Site Massacre of Istvaan V at the start of the Horus Heresy. Due to their combination of the organic and mechanic, the ones that remain are treated with great respect. Entire squads of Terminators will rarely be fielded, but the inspirational feeling they create among the rank and file is harnessed by allowing veterans equipped with Terminator armour to lead squads of Tactical Marines. For similar reasons, Dreadnoughts will lead forces when the occasion demands, and several of the Clan Companies Leaders are contained within the armoured sarcophagus of a Dreadnought.

AgeOfEgos wrote:The Wiki has some more info on them;

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Hands



Noted things from skimming;

No Chaplains, as an Iron Father (Tech Marine) fills both roles

There is no Scout Company for new recruits, instead each Clan Company must recruit its own Neophytes from the Medusan clans linked to the Company to remain at strength. Upon indoctrination, the left hand of each Neophyte is replaced with a cybernetic replacement, the beginning of a mechanisation process that will continue for the rest of their lives.

Dreadnoughts and Terminators are rarely used by the Iron Hands because many of these Veteran cyborgs and the ancient suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armour used by Terminators were lost in the Drop Site Massacre of Istvaan V at the start of the Horus Heresy. Due to their combination of the organic and mechanic, the ones that remain are treated with great respect. Entire squads of Terminators will rarely be fielded, but the inspirational feeling they create among the rank and file is harnessed by allowing veterans equipped with Terminator armour to lead squads of Tactical Marines. For similar reasons, Dreadnoughts will lead forces when the occasion demands, and several of the Clan Companies Leaders are contained within the armoured sarcophagus of a Dreadnought.

I thought they had lots of dreadnoughts, they weren't sent to Istvann III were they?

Actually, that's exactly where Ferrus was killed by Fulgrim. A great deal of Iron Hand veterans were wiped out at Istvann.....so I suppose that could carry over to the Dreads?

Mr Nobody wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:The Wiki has some more info on them;

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Hands



Noted things from skimming;

No Chaplains, as an Iron Father (Tech Marine) fills both roles

There is no Scout Company for new recruits, instead each Clan Company must recruit its own Neophytes from the Medusan clans linked to the Company to remain at strength. Upon indoctrination, the left hand of each Neophyte is replaced with a cybernetic replacement, the beginning of a mechanisation process that will continue for the rest of their lives.

Dreadnoughts and Terminators are rarely used by the Iron Hands because many of these Veteran cyborgs and the ancient suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armour used by Terminators were lost in the Drop Site Massacre of Istvaan V at the start of the Horus Heresy. Due to their combination of the organic and mechanic, the ones that remain are treated with great respect. Entire squads of Terminators will rarely be fielded, but the inspirational feeling they create among the rank and file is harnessed by allowing veterans equipped with Terminator armour to lead squads of Tactical Marines. For similar reasons, Dreadnoughts will lead forces when the occasion demands, and several of the Clan Companies Leaders are contained within the armoured sarcophagus of a Dreadnought.

I thought they had lots of dreadnoughts, they weren't sent to Istvann III were they?

The Iron hands venerate anyone in Deadnoughts or Teminator armour because it is so rare... also because it is awesome.

Actually quite the opposite is true regarding their dreadnoughts. The book Iron Hands specifically states there are only 7 Dreads in the entire chapter and being interred in them is the highest honor that can be given to a battle brother.

You'd have thought that they could get a few replacements every ow and then. If mars can still produce and maintain titans they should have the technology to produce dreadnoughts and tacticle dreadnought armour

mullet_steve wrote:You'd have thought that they could get a few replacements every ow and then. If mars can still produce and maintain titans they should have the technology to produce dreadnoughts and tacticle dreadnought armour

They still have very few... enough to make them venerated for simply existing.

Istvaan? Yeah, they were there. nearly caused the deaths of the raven guard and salamanders, too. resulted in Corax and vulkan dissappearing. good job.

shrike wrote:Istvaan? Yeah, they were there. nearly caused the deaths of the raven guard and salamanders, too. resulted in Corax and vulkan dissappearing. good job.

Got the dates a bit wrong?

Corax and Vulkan were present at the debate of the second founding/ use of codex astartes, this happend after the Heresy ended.
Corax left after rebuilding the Raven Guard. Vulkan left too, but did not find any good source for when and how.

The Iron Hands, who are the subject of this thread, had a Index Astartes article and most wiki's refer to this.
Let me point to some pieces of the Index Astartes article:

Army list ( changes of codex space marines, actual was 3rd edition of 40k , to field a IH list ):

HQ

- Captain, Librarian, command squad ( as codex SM )
- Iron father ( combo of chaplain and techmarine )
- venerable dread

Elite

- Veteran squad ( codex SM 3rd edition )
- Dread ( no restrictions here , so 0-3 )
- No Terminator squad

Fast assault

- Assaultmarines, bikers, assaultbikes, scoutbikers, Landspeeder ( were divided into standard LS and single Tornado or typhoon in 3rd ed space marines )

heavy support

- Devastators, Vindicator, Predator destructor and annihilator, Whirlwind, Land Raider,

standard

- Tacticalmarines
- scouts

Please note this was a list used with codex space marines 3rd ed, therefore some new 5th ed units cannot be found there....

Iron Hands got a discount when choosing bionics and their Veteran Seargents could take Termie-armor. The only specific unit was the Iron Father who got a metal model. GW also produced a squad with bionics and IH shoulderpads and still sells it.

In 5th ed, it is said that the MotF is your best bet to do IH, as M.ward forgot( ? ) to put a special charcter for IH into the codex.

Background:

- the iron hands have close ties to the mechanicum at Mars,
- the iron hands use rare and unusual tech, thanks to the above,
- the iron hands do not have a chapter master, but a clan council, each company sends 1 representative to,
- the iron hands were split into 3 chapters at the second founding,
- the iron hands have 10 companies but do not follow codex astartes there and each of those companies is independent.
- the iron hands do not have a chapter monastery, but each company has its own mobile base.
- the home of the iron hands, Medusa is a tectonic active world and immobile structures won't stand for long,
- the iron hands lost their Primarch and his veteran bodyguard ( Morlocks ) at isstvan but the majority of the Legion came too late and survived.

I think he meant it resulted in them dissappearing eventually but not straight away.

Cool! thanks

1hadhq wrote:

shrike wrote:Istvaan? Yeah, they were there. nearly caused the deaths of the raven guard and salamanders, too. resulted in Corax and vulkan dissappearing. good job.

Got the dates a bit wrong?

Corax was present at the debate of the second founding/ use of codex astartes, this happend after the Heresy ended.
Corax left after rebuilding the Raven Guard.

uh, no he wasn't. he used forbidden gene acceleration soon after, causing monsters, then he killed each one, spent a year and a day in the highest chamber in the ravenspire and flew into the eye of terror, never to be seen again.

shrike wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

shrike wrote:Istvaan? Yeah, they were there. nearly caused the deaths of the raven guard and salamanders, too. resulted in Corax and vulkan dissappearing. good job.

Got the dates a bit wrong?

Corax was present at the debate of the second founding/ use of codex astartes, this happend after the Heresy ended.
Corax left after rebuilding the Raven Guard.

uh, no he wasn't. he used forbidden gene acceleration soon after, causing monsters, then he killed each one, spent a year and a day in the highest chamber in the ravenspire and flew into the eye of terror, never to be seen again.

Oh he was. He's just that sneaky.

Codex Black Templars, page 6, Second founding, lists the Primarchs attending to the discussion if the Legions should be split into chapters like Gullyman intended.

Those were:

supporting Dorn to keep the Legions united:
- Leman Russ of the Space Wolves
- Vulkan of the Salamanders
- Rogal Dorn of the Imperial Fists

supporting Gullyman to split the Legio's:
- Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars
- Corax of the Raven Guard
- Roboute Gullyman of the Ultramarines

How should Corax support Gullyman there if he had already left?
Per 'youtube' directly from EoT???

I am sure you're aware of Corax consent to split his Legio.

Plus, Index astartes / Raven Guard ( WD ) states Corax welcomed the new way of splitting Legios into chapters and the first 3 chapters mentioned as
successors are the black guard, revilers and raptors. It also says he went to the Ravenspire to ask his Emperor to forgive him his treatment of the Legion
he was in charge of.....AFTER the secound founding!

Order of events,

Please remember the secound founding happened 7 years after Horus death.



-

ah. I got ninja'd, didn't I?
I stand corrected.

Another thing about the Iron Hands:

The are absolutely brutal, and remorselessly cruel. It seems out of all the chapters, theirs is the least concerned with collateral damage and the protection of Imperial citizenry. For example, they once executed a third of a planets population because a comparatively small group of heretics was present.

Commander Endova wrote:Another thing about the Iron Hands:

The are absolutely brutal, and remorselessly cruel. It seems out of all the chapters, theirs is the least concerned with collateral damage and the protection of Imperial citizenry. For example, they once executed a third of a planets population because a comparatively small group of heretics was present.

Firstly, the population was decimated for failing to be vigilant in the face of heresy. So that's a tenth (1/10) of the population, not 1/3.

Secondly, I am 89.7% sure that it wasn't the Iron Hands.

1hadhq wrote:

shrike wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

shrike wrote:Istvaan? Yeah, they were there. nearly caused the deaths of the raven guard and salamanders, too. resulted in Corax and vulkan dissappearing. good job.

Got the dates a bit wrong?

Corax was present at the debate of the second founding/ use of codex astartes, this happend after the Heresy ended.
Corax left after rebuilding the Raven Guard.

uh, no he wasn't. he used forbidden gene acceleration soon after, causing monsters, then he killed each one, spent a year and a day in the highest chamber in the ravenspire and flew into the eye of terror, never to be seen again.

Oh he was. He's just that sneaky.

Plus, Index astartes / Raven Guard ( WD ) states Corax welcomed the new way of splitting Legios into chapters and the first 3 chapters mentioned as
successors are the black guard, revilers and raptors. It also says he went to the Ravenspire to ask his Emperor to forgive him his treatment of the Legion
he was in charge of.....AFTER the secound founding!

Please remember the secound founding happened 7 years after Horus death.

i would still say that if istvaan hadn't happened, Corax, wouldn't have suffered mentally as bad

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:Another thing about the Iron Hands:

The are absolutely brutal, and remorselessly cruel. It seems out of all the chapters, theirs is the least concerned with collateral damage and the protection of Imperial citizenry. For example, they once executed a third of a planets population because a comparatively small group of heretics was present.

Firstly, the population was decimated for failing to be vigilant in the face of heresy. So that's a tenth (1/10) of the population, not 1/3.

Secondly, I am 89.7% sure that it wasn't the Iron Hands.

I thought it was 1 in 10, and it was the IH. 94.39%

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:Another thing about the Iron Hands:

The are absolutely brutal, and remorselessly cruel. It seems out of all the chapters, theirs is the least concerned with collateral damage and the protection of Imperial citizenry. For example, they once executed a third of a planets population because a comparatively small group of heretics was present.

Firstly, the population was decimated for failing to be vigilant in the face of heresy. So that's a tenth (1/10) of the population, not 1/3.

Secondly, I am 89.7% sure that it wasn't the Iron Hands.

I cant remember where exactly but i do think it was the Iron hands. They idealize self-sufficiency and an individual's strength to serve the emperor. I think they found that planet so lacking that they decided a purge was in order to root out the weak. Plus with their focus on cybernetic replacement and improvement, clannish society they could be argued as one of the most aloof/hard to understand of the first foundings.

Edit: I think it was in the chapter approved series.

The cleansing of the subsector Contqual is part of Index Astartes andd codex space marines ( page 45 ).
I think thats the story you seek.

And its really 30% executed.....

Just remember, the Iron Hands had to contain a Demonic incursion there and did what they did to make sure the point of "behave and don't summon Demons" was
understood. After this cleansing, the subsector is perfectly compliant.

1hadhq wrote:The cleansing of the subsector Contqual is part of Index Astartes andd codex space marines ( page 45 ).
I think thats the story you seek.

And its really 30% executed.....

Just remember, the Iron Hands had to contain a Demonic incursion there and did what they did to make sure the point of "behave and don't summon Demons" was
understood. After this cleansing, the subsector is perfectly compliant.

Thanks that was bugging me where I'd seen the story. But couldn't remember.

See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

shrike wrote:See? they are pretty harsh. If that happened now, it would mean all of china getting killed because, say, luxembourg went insane and tried to start a nuclear war.

Not really, it would be the eqivalent of China and India being annhilated becuase the Dalai Lama was in fact summoning deamons. (Though remember, after a deamon incursion, 30% of the survivors may not have been that much left)

that's still 2 of the largest countries in the world being wiped out because of one guy being an idiot.