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yep i have read the star child, but as there are no current 40k references i consider it ret-conned, GW seems to be ignoring alot of that old fluff.

I still dont think that The Emp will become the starchild, more like the starchild will have all the traits the people believe the Emp has, it will no longer be him, but he will be a part of it.

The Star Child is what the potential of the Emperor's soul as it exists currently, waiting for the time when Humanity needs the Emperor most at which point the Star Child (the last vestiges of the Emperor's soul) will be rekindled into new life and He will be reborn.

The Star Child exists in .M41 and will eventually be reborn into a new body but not as a warp based entity because the Emperor/New Man isn't and never has been and never will be a warp entity.

An idea I have toyed with myself is that of the Carrion Lord, the being worshipped by the teeming masses of Humanity. Whilst we know that the Emperor is just the most powerful psyker ever, Humanity worship 'The Emperor' as a god and as such all of that belief is constructing an actual warp based enity. I've seen a few other people think along the same liens on various forums but obvisouly this is just a fan theory, with no solid background support.

Gogsnik wrote:The Star Child is what the potential of the Emperor's soul as it exists currently, waiting for the time when Humanity needs the Emperor most at which point the Star Child (the last vestiges of the Emperor's soul) will be rekindled into new life and He will be reborn.

The Star Child exists in .M41 and will eventually be reborn into a new body but not as a warp based entity because the Emperor/New Man isn't and never has been and never will be a warp entity.

An idea I have toyed with myself is that of the Carrion Lord, the being worshipped by the teeming masses of Humanity. Whilst we know that the Emperor is just the most powerful psyker ever, Humanity worship 'The Emperor' as a god and as such all of that belief is constructing an actual warp based enity. I've seen a few other people think along the same liens on various forums but obvisouly this is just a fan theory, with no solid background support.

pretty much exactly what i said.

I hate doing this but... gonna need a Ref for the starchild in modern 40k, no not the Inquisition war as not only is it a naf book, its not canon (no the Sqauts were not eaten by the Tyranids, they were written out of 40k, live with it lol)

purplefood wrote:

Formosa wrote:there are no gods on fenris... lol

but (a little) seriously, The Emp is not a god, nor will he become one, if he dies he is dead, now more interestingly the lack of a "focal point" for the faith of billions of billions of humans will vanish, and all that belief will create a "god" that has all the virtues of the Emp, but it will not be the Emp.

I always found it interesting that Religeous dogma can and has been the enemy of Reason and technology, that The Ad mech was allowed to exist by the Emp, I always wonder if he would have turned on them

Eve heard of the Star Child theory?
Apparently if the Emperor dies he may form "the Star Child" and basically become a god in the warp.

Star child would be him being reborn, his soul goes to the warp before he is reborn though just like the shamans he was created from, so there is a risk of him being destroyed by warp entities

Gibbsey wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Formosa wrote:there are no gods on fenris... lol

but (a little) seriously, The Emp is not a god, nor will he become one, if he dies he is dead, now more interestingly the lack of a "focal point" for the faith of billions of billions of humans will vanish, and all that belief will create a "god" that has all the virtues of the Emp, but it will not be the Emp.

I always found it interesting that Religeous dogma can and has been the enemy of Reason and technology, that The Ad mech was allowed to exist by the Emp, I always wonder if he would have turned on them

Eve heard of the Star Child theory?
Apparently if the Emperor dies he may form "the Star Child" and basically become a god in the warp.

Star child would be him being reborn, his soul goes to the warp before he is reborn though just like the shamans he was created from, so there is a risk of him being destroyed by warp entities

He's the Emperor. What warp entity is gonna have the nads or the power to take him. His power is comparable to the Chaos 'gods'

the same 4 that did it last time lol

still waitin on that modern Ref to the Starchild =p

OF COURSE THE EMPEROR IS A GOD! BLASPHEMY!

*Raises his bolter*

Go meet whatever warp-filth spawned you heretic!

*fires*

----

Now, serious answer time.

Suppose this one comes down to what you believe the definition of divinity to be, which is directly influenced by your personal beliefs.

To me, the definition of divinity is simply the focal spiritual point of a religion (Provided they embody it in a single being or set of beings, religions like Buddhism not having a deity). Thus, I believe the Emperor to be a god purely on that basis alone, never mind his awesome psychic might existing on a level he can at least hold the Chaos Gods at bay.

However, he's certainly not a god in the way the Christians see theirs. He's not omnipotent, he's stuck in 'Old Testament mode' with no comprimises, and is certainly not perfect....he has multiple personality disorder...and the personalities hide stuff from each other.. that's for a start.

---

It comes down to your definition of divinity in the end of it, which is really a personal belief fueled by your faith/whatever you may believe about faith in general, at least I believe so. I'm a pagan, which is why my personal definition turned out as it did....actually discussing this with another, who is Christian, as of right now, and their definition of divinity is completely different....but that's fine, that's their belief.

Formosa wrote:the same 4 that did it last time lol

still waitin on that modern Ref to the Starchild =p

Sorry, i seriously don't remember. I think it's from the Eisenhorn series. I could be wrong though so check lexicanum.

purplefood wrote:

Formosa wrote:the same 4 that did it last time lol

still waitin on that modern Ref to the Starchild =p

Sorry, i seriously don't remember. I think it's from the Eisenhorn series. I could be wrong though so check lexicanum.

Actually, I believe it was the Inquisition War Trilogy...'tis only semi-recent though, it still has squats.

in anwser as to who wrote the legio divinicus, it was logar before the emperor reprimaned him. Referance talies of heresy where he clearly states he wrote it and was begining work on a new tome (book of logar)

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Formosa wrote:the same 4 that did it last time lol

still waitin on that modern Ref to the Starchild =p

Sorry, i seriously don't remember. I think it's from the Eisenhorn series. I could be wrong though so check lexicanum.

Actually, I believe it was the Inquisition War Trilogy...'tis only semi-recent though, it still has squats.

It'll be that then since i remember reading the first book but not the rest.

Formosa wrote:still waitin on that modern Ref to the Starchild =p

The most recent mention (one of the rulebooks, I forget) is that the Inquisition believe that the Star Child Cult was a Tzeentichian plot.

However, it is irrelevent how recent the background was written as it is still valid until Games Workshop publish something that explicitly overwrites the fate of the Emperor after His confrontation with Horus.

Even the Sensei and Illuminati background has not been written out but much of it has been cannibalised for the Thorians and other Inquisitorial factions.

Even the Squats have not been written out of the background, the Homeworlds were destroyed but there are still Squats around, mostly living in the Imperium according to Jervis Johnson.

As for the Star Child, like I say, unless Games Workshop introduce a new idea as to the fate of the Emperor then the old background still stands; the Emperor's soul desolved into the uncorrupted warp until only a tiny core remained, a potential, bobbing on the tides of the warp like a child in a reed boat, ergo the Star Child, awaiting the right time for its rebirth.

He's the Emperor. What warp entity is gonna have the nads or the power to take him. His power is comparable to the Chaos 'gods'

Actually it might be possible for the Chaos gods to destroy the Emperor after a fashion. We know that the Chaos Powers set about infiltrating the Emperor's mind and even the Emperor Himself does not know how long He can survive before He loses His link to His physical remains either through weakness or insanity.

purplefood wrote:

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Formosa wrote:the same 4 that did it last time lol

still waitin on that modern Ref to the Starchild =p

Sorry, i seriously don't remember. I think it's from the Eisenhorn series. I could be wrong though so check lexicanum.

Actually, I believe it was the Inquisition War Trilogy...'tis only semi-recent though, it still has squats.

It'll be that then since i remember reading the first book but not the rest.

There was an article that came out that described several of the major factions of the Inquisition, one of which were those that believed the Emperor's power was actually restrained by the throne and his release/mortal death would herald the arrival of the Star Child (though I can't remember if they actually used that word). Essentially, the Star Child explanation is at best prophecy or theory. It's in the same area as the Eldar reference to Ynnead.

As for all this god talk, it depends what you define as God. While there may not be any omnipotent Monotheistic entities, by the more old fashioned definition of 'Gods', then yes there are many gods in the realm of 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gogsnik wrote:Even the Squats have not been written out of the background, the Homeworlds were destroyed but there are still Squats around, mostly living in the Imperium according to Jervis Johnson.

I'd agree with this, while there are no Squat armies there was a squat/descendant-of-squats that was involved in the Ravenor trioligy.

Personally I saw the Emp as simply the most powerful psyker of humanity (made up of the thousands of shamans who decided to create a gestalt entity to carry on their power), but still a man; however an extremely powerful man.

After his internment into the Golden Throne, one assumes that his body still lives to some degree, but his extraordinarily powerful mind is free to wander and empower those who bring his will, as well as guarding against the predations of chaos where he can.

Considering the Chaos gods feed on emotion, one could assume that the Emperor feeds on faith and belief in him, therefore empowering him further, because he is bolstered by millions of believers and worshipers. He is obviously now an extremely powerful warp entity, likely on par with the Chaos gods, and worshiped as a god; too bad this was never what he wanted in life.

But, back to the OP, the definition of Divine is what drives this question. I don't believe the Emperor is divine, but I do believe he is an extremely powerful being, and worshiped as a god.

Also: Inquisition War, by Ian Watson, was the trilogy all about the starchild theory, and it had a squat. Also, got a little crazy at the end, heh. I think that is the only book where someone has actually been inside of the Golden Throne and had the Emperor speak to them(since he was interred within after his battle with Horus anyway).

However, he's certainly not a god in the way the Christians see theirs. He's not omnipotent, he's stuck in 'Old Testament mode' with no comprimises, and is certainly not perfect....he has multiple personality disorder...and the personalities hide stuff from each other.. that's for a start.

Waitaminute....what? I mean I've read that part of Inquisition wars but I figured he had multiple parts of his personalities so he could watch over all of the Imperium.

Whats this about hiding stuff from each other?

--------

To say that the Emperor is divine is to define divinity, the objective definition of divinity is whatever power or powers that a certain group of people esteem as a creator or all powerful being. In that case then yes the Emperor is a "god" if you wanna get more theological about it then no the Empeor is not a "god"

It all depends on how you define "god"

as for the Chaos gods, seriously, has anyone even proved that they exist? All I know is that they are ultrapowerful warp entities made up of their perspective gestalt emotions that have been gathering in the war for thousands of years. Warp entities are a direct result of that. daemons are sentient beings' darker subconscious emotions and desires made real.

daedalus-templarius wrote:
Considering the Chaos gods feed on emotion, one could assume that the Emperor feeds on faith and belief in him, therefore empowering him further, because he is bolstered by millions of believers and worshipers. He is obviously now an extremely powerful warp entity, likely on par with the Chaos gods, and worshiped as a god; too bad this was never what he wanted in life.

The Emperor does not feed on faith or belief. The mechanisms of the Golden Throne need souls to power them and in turn that allows the handful of living cells within the Emperor's corpse to remain alive and thus anchor what is left of his soul, the Star Child, to His remains but beyond that the worship of the Imperium does nothing for the Emperor and He is not becoming, nor will He ever become a warp entity.

The fluff suggests that any being with a warp presence as its soul survive in the warp for some amount of time, though most conscious beings are snuffed out by the currents. Particularly strong minded beings (like the Eldar pre-fall) survived intact, and then reincarnated (where human minds were simply snuffed out within seconds). It stands to reason that a sufficiently powerful psyker would continue to exist, even in the turbulent warp of the 41st millennium. There's also what the daemons codex says, with the souls of cultists becoming daemons in the thrall of their god (or being consumed to produce new daemons, it's not clear on which).

Then there's the matter of non-psykers manifesting stable warp powers through faith in the emperor (one almost sees a parallel with ork technology there: in both cases (relatively) stable effects appear simply through sufficiently strong belief that they will, perhaps implying that anything with a warp presence can cause such effects with sufficiently strong belief (whereas psykers get the easy route of "OH GOD FIRE IS POURING FROM MY EYES!")), or imperial icons harming daemons (there's a scene in Malleus (I think it was) that has a priest who had gone mad from isolation chasing an unbound daemonhost with a golden aquila yelling praises to the emperor, since he misinterpreted the ball of light that had just saved them all as a manifestation of the emperor's will. Once it recovers it kills him, but in its weakened state it's physically harmed by the presence of the aquila (and the priest is confused as to why the emperor's will is fleeing from him )). Perhaps the Emperor realized more of the nature of the universe he lived in after being interred in the golden throne, and decided that blind faith and fanatacism were the only reliable guards against Chaos, as well as a weapon against being comprised entirely of emotion, and so manipulated things to lead to the Imperial Cult gaining power.

WARORK93 wrote:

However, he's certainly not a god in the way the Christians see theirs. He's not omnipotent, he's stuck in 'Old Testament mode' with no comprimises, and is certainly not perfect....he has multiple personality disorder...and the personalities hide stuff from each other.. that's for a start.

Waitaminute....what? I mean I've read that part of Inquisition wars but I figured he had multiple parts of his personalities so he could watch over all of the Imperium.

Whats this about hiding stuff from each other?

The multiple personalities are so he can fulfill his many duties at once, but also so he watch his many plans for mankinds safety/salvation and pull strings to keep them rolling. However, not all are willing to share with the group how long it's been since they last had a beer ....I mean what they're up to.

Spoiler:

From memory, it's concluded in that scene, although it could be later during the same book, that it's quite possible, or even likely, that a facet of the Emperor is behind the 'Ordo Hydra', and the collective consconsciousness doesn't know about it.

The multiple personalities are so he can fulfill his many duties at once, but also so he watch his many plans for mankinds safety/salvation and pull strings to keep them rolling. However, not all are willing to share with the group how long it's been since they last had a beer ....I mean what they're up to.

Ah, Thank you for clearing that up, got just a wee bit confused.....

-looks left- -looks right- ..CoughcoughThe Emperor is dead!cough.. Who said that?

God is more like being the first n the only on something like an entire galaxy and even more so i believe that Emperor isnt a god and it is clear he wanted to free the people minds from the beliefs of a god and stuff tho he failed on this, believing him as a god. He might become one with his death.