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Lone Dragoon wrote:...

I removed what was wrong. Saying how to use a weapon combo dosen't not mean you can automatic get it.

Actually I don't advocate getting two of them for the price of one, if you want two of them you have to pay for two of them. I can see I'm probably not going to change minds, so I'll just have to agree to disagree. The only thing I'll say in parting is that in how I interpretted the rules, if a rule covers a certain situation you have permission for the situation to occur, which means you got permission to do it in the first place because of the rule.

The situation can occur, you just have to have the ability to do so for that model type. You need rules saying you may purchase an extra X or a second Y. Simply saying you can have two items from a list does not give that ability.

Can you take 2 agonisers on 1 archon? Techincally yes. Does it do anything? No

Lone Dragoon wrote:The only thing I'll say in parting is that in how I interpretted the rules, if a rule covers a certain situation you have permission for the situation to occur, which means you got permission to do it in the first place because of the rule.

Well good for you, I guess the rest of us will just use the rules the way they read. Without adding extra meanings to them.

Ok going back to the 2 agonisers thing. The codex also says you can replace the Archons CCW and\or pistol with a blaster. Then army builder gives you the option to take 2 blasters one to replace the pistol and one to replace the CCW. Does this mean I can take 2 blasters on 1 Archon?

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok going back to the 2 agonisers thing. The codex also says you can replace the Archons CCW and\or pistol with a blaster. Then army builder gives you the option to take 2 blasters one to replace the pistol and one to replace the CCW. Does this mean I can take 2 blasters on 1 Archon?

I'd let you, mainly because you can only fire one of them so its pointless but still...

wizard12 wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok going back to the 2 agonisers thing. The codex also says you can replace the Archons CCW and\or pistol with a blaster. Then army builder gives you the option to take 2 blasters one to replace the pistol and one to replace the CCW. Does this mean I can take 2 blasters on 1 Archon?

I'd let you, mainly because you can only fire one of them so its pointless but still...

Why can you only fire one? The SW have those guys that can be upgraded to have 2 bolters dont they?

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:

wizard12 wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok going back to the 2 agonisers thing. The codex also says you can replace the Archons CCW and\or pistol with a blaster. Then army builder gives you the option to take 2 blasters one to replace the pistol and one to replace the CCW. Does this mean I can take 2 blasters on 1 Archon?

I'd let you, mainly because you can only fire one of them so its pointless but still...

Why can you only fire one? The SW have those guys that can be upgraded to have 2 bolters dont they?

Not that I know of...

Infantry can only fire one weapon IIRC, maybe wrong as I haven't played a game in some time and the rarity of infantry with multiple ranged weapons but could you be refering to what is known as Über-grit where the model is armed with a bolt pistol, CC-weapon and bolter thus granting an extra attack.

Edit: page 15 second paragraph

Normally each model in a unit can fire a single weapon. Some models, including vehicles, may be able to fire more than one weapon, as detailed later on

I think he's referring to the wolf guard who can be upgraded to have two combi-weapons if they chose. As infantry can only fire one weapon per shooting phase, they are basically paying 10 points to have 2 shots with a meltagun/flamer/plasma, in seperate turns though not in a single shooting phase.

You are only given permission to fire one weapon per model in the shooting phase. Unless you have a special rule overriding this, like Monstrous Creatures (or vehicles) - so you can only fire one blaster

You're thinkign of WG, who can take two combi weapons. they can only fire one at a time, but it does give them two "combi" shots to fire in two phases.

As to the argument above: the existence of a rule telling you what happens IF you fulfill the criteria for the rule does NOT give you permission to fulfill that rule. That is entirely fallacious.

Maybe that was just a load of BS because it did come from TFG at my local gaming store.
Last question for now. Can models coming out of a webway portal assault that turn?

Yes, it is "normal" reserves - no prohibition on assaulting from reserves by default.

wizard12 wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok going back to the 2 agonisers thing. The codex also says you can replace the Archons CCW and\or pistol with a blaster. Then army builder gives you the option to take 2 blasters one to replace the pistol and one to replace the CCW. Does this mean I can take 2 blasters on 1 Archon?

I'd let you, mainly because you can only fire one of them so its pointless but still...

I wouldn't object to letting him fire them as a single twin-linked blast pistol. It would count as a house rule, but I don't play tournaments, so it's nothing to me.

You keep using what would best be defined as improper grammar or a possible missing word to say that you can't take the same item twice. "Because it doesn't say each" or "Because it's not plural" are not reasons that you can't take two of them. In the DE wargear and Arcane Items section, it states that somethings are only o e per army. It even states that you can't have have one piece of wargear if you have a certain other one, ie clone field and shadow field. However, nowhere in the codex, nor in the BRB that I can think of does it state that you CANNOT have multiple pieces of the same wargear. So, by using your own arguement against you, if it doesn't say i can't have two, then I can have two. And seeing as the only restrictions are UP TO two, and the SF/CF restriction, I don't see where you can't do it. Now is there a point for two soultraps or two hexrifles? No, of course not. But that doesn't mean that you can't have them. Once again it comes down to RAW vs either RAI or what the particular players perception. You of course have every right to not play against someone running two of the same wargear, but that still doesn't mean they can't take it.

And of course I am only using DE as an example. This could easily apply to any army/race that doesn't have it specified.

Galador wrote:You keep using what would best be defined as improper grammar or a possible missing word to say that you can't take the same item twice. "Because it doesn't say each" or "Because it's not plural" are not reasons that you can't take two of them. In the DE wargear and Arcane Items section, it states that somethings are only o e per army. It even states that you can't have have one piece of wargear if you have a certain other one, ie clone field and shadow field. However, nowhere in the codex, nor in the BRB that I can think of does it state that you CANNOT have multiple pieces of the same wargear. So, by using your own arguement against you, if it doesn't say i can't have two, then I can have two. And seeing as the only restrictions are UP TO two, and the SF/CF restriction, I don't see where you can't do it. Now is there a point for two soultraps or two hexrifles? No, of course not. But that doesn't mean that you can't have them. Once again it comes down to RAW vs either RAI or what the particular players perception. You of course have every right to not play against someone running two of the same wargear, but that still doesn't mean they can't take it.

And of course I am only using DE as an example. This could easily apply to any army/race that doesn't have it specified.

Ok then. We pretty much had gotten everything resolved about that. Thanks though!

@Galador: Because it does not say "Make two choices from the following" but instead says "May take two of the following", you are only given the choice to make non-duplicate choices.

That is how the language is used consistently across all of the codices, just like 'dice' is used as both a singular and plural consistently across all of the codices.

Additionally: it doesnt say I cant is a terrible argument.

The rules tell you what you CAN do. Do the rules let you take two of the same item? No? Then you cannot.