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The reason there is not an all out war on the Nids is very similar to why there is no all out war on humans/Tau/Eldar...you get the idea, they re still awakening. The Necrons are playing a defensive (mostly) stance in order to allow the Resurrection Lords time to get the galaxies Tombworlds awoken again. The Necrons functioning currently are not sufficiently powerful to take out an entire race in all out war yet, so they're keeping trespassers off their worlds and keeping some of the more active Tombworlds system's clean up until they're ready to bring out the really devastating guns.

Concerning lack of Nid/Necron fighting specifically, as has already been discussed, Nids gain Nothing from the Necrons who either just Phase Out after a battle or win. The one instance of Necrons and Nids was a surprise attack in space after they had accidentally disturbed a moon Tombworld, otherwise the Nids give them wide birth in he same way humans don't really settle in deserts or the arctic. It's simply not worth it.

upliftingprimer wrote:I understand your point of view, this is just my interpretation based off the codex, which says:

"Many Tyranid Creatures are also psykers. They do not draw power from the Warp in any fathomable way, but rather they harness a fraction of the Hive Mind's Gestalt will. This makes no difference for game purposes and these models still fallow all the rules for psykers - a Perils of the Warp attack instead representing massive cerebral trauma or synaptic feedback.”

It seems to me like comparing apples to oranges their still fruit they just come from different trees.

Qft
Thats the line I was looking for. Ergo no warp based psychic powers, no daemon food, no warp travel as per the new dex. Still haven't seen it written they use it for comms either, just assumptions that they do. I know this means that they must draw power for their psychic stuff from somewhere else, but this to me is something unique to the nids, much like the rest of their biotech.

"Many Tyranid Creatures are also psykers.

Ok so its established they are psykers.

They do not draw power from the Warp in any fathomable way

So they use the warp for power just not in a way that is understood by us (IoM)

but rather they harness a fraction of the Hive Mind's Gestalt will.

This resides in the warp, as the Shadow. This will that resides in the warp would have no way of "speaking" to the Nids if they were not psykers, it would be like 2 people shouting at each other... from diferent planets... no way to talk

This makes no difference for game purposes and these models still fallow all the rules for psykers - a Perils of the Warp attack instead representing massive cerebral trauma or synaptic feedback.

this is what it is, psychic surge

It seems to me like comparing apples to oranges their still fruit they just come from different trees.

2 diferent tree's... that grow in the same ground, call a spade a spade, Tyranids use the warp it would be immposible for the Hive mind to communicate if not, as I have said

The Hive Mind doesn't need to use the Warp to communicate, that's what it's Synapse creatures are for, it's basically a massive telephone network ensuring that all the Tyranids are connected to each other at the same time.

When a Synapse creature dies and there aren't anymore, anything that was connected gets disconnected and reverts back to it's base instinct.

It's the Hive Mind and the massive blanket of the other Tyranid organisms that create the Shadow in the Warp.

I'm not sure if currently the Tyranids are an objective of the Necrons and the Tyranids seem to avoid the Necrons as much as possible as there is no benefit from confrontation. I don't know much about the Necrons but they seem to be doing more specific things and protecting Tombs Worlds rather than launching massive scale war. Kinda gathering the pieces of the puzzle before they play their trump hand.

Formosa wrote:Tyranids use the warp it would be immposible for the Hive mind to communicate if not, as I have said

We do not know how they communciate. They use synapse, which is something that nobody even slightly understands past the fact that it is a psychic link (and therefore able to be servered by null zones etc.). The Hive Mind is a being of great psychic power; we do not know whether it is a warp manifestation or whether it is something different, since the Tyranids come from a different Galaxy, but that is all we need to know for us to say that it is not 100% controlled by the warp. We don't even know if the warp exists beyond this Galaxy; if it doesn't then that completely rules out the theory of Snypase being warp-based communciation.

As for the original question; numbers. Think 300 (which was more like several thousand, but oh well) but instead of Persians, have them facing ruthless; emotionless beasts of destruction. Sure, they'd hold out for a bit (assuming purely CC), but ultimately they'd fall to far, far superior numbers (again, instead of 100,000 Persians, think billions of Tyranids).

The Necrons once wiped the Galaxy of all life, but it took a united army led by Gods; if this occurs, then it won't just be Tyranids the destroy, it'll be everything. No Daemons would appear because of no followers and no (or few, since Lords retain minor parts of their former minds) emotions to draw power from. Khorne would be the last to fall, once the last drop of blood has been spilled fighting against soulless, bloodless automatons.

However, most armies have endgame scenarios; Orks and Tyranids, races that rely on organic ways of re-production, will fall easily, unless the Orks are united under a single leader and the bulk of the Tyranid army (Hive Mind and all) enters the Galaxy. The Eldar will likely go into hiding (unless this is the Rhana Dandra, at which point they will fight until the final soulstone is added to the Infinity Circuit). The Imperium could be met with the re-birth of the Emperor. The forces of Chaos could see the Chaos Gods taking physical form in the Galaxy. The Daemons would be fueled by conflict and would gain power. The Tau have no real endgame, unless their arrival is the will of the Old Ones, and they are the new arm of the Creators.

So yeah, i ranted a bit and gave my opinion, time for a summary:
They are too few in number.
The only time they'll be strong enough for all out war is likely endgame (and so it is likely that will never happen, since there is little to no timeline forwarding.

Except the 'Nids actively AVOID the Necrons in every fathomable way. If you look into the maps in the 'Nids codex, pg. 11, Necron Tomb World "Solemnace".

Quoted directly from the codex:

"Two minor tendrils of Hive Fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the Necrons of Solemnace. Unable to find other nurtrient-rich prey worlds in the immediate vicinity, these tendrils lapse into a state of hiberanation"(Cruddace 11).

Note, they make MAJOR course corrections, something which the Hive Mind would not do unless they see a major threat. Unless the Necrons actively pursue the Tyranids, the Tyranids will avoid any and all conflict with the Necrons as the codex shows.

I believe the Necrons and 'Nids have been at war before, how else would the Hive Mind know how to avoid Solemnace unless they had fought before? In any case, we will have to wait until the Necron's codex is updated to see any expansion of fluff relation.

Avatar 720 wrote:

Formosa wrote:Tyranids use the warp it would be immposible for the Hive mind to communicate if not, as I have said

We do not know how they communciate. They use synapse, which is something that nobody even slightly understands past the fact that it is a psychic link (and therefore able to be servered by null zones etc.). The Hive Mind is a being of great psychic power; we do not know whether it is a warp manifestation or whether it is something different, since the Tyranids come from a different Galaxy, but that is all we need to know for us to say that it is not 100% controlled by the warp. We don't even know if the warp exists beyond this Galaxy; if it doesn't then that completely rules out the theory of Snypase being warp-based communciation.

.... yes we know how they communicate, through the Hive Mind, which casts a shadow in the WARP.

Ref, page 5 and 6 I think, the parts that say "The Hive Mind" and "Shadow in the Warp", I will add more when I get my 2nd Ed 3rd Ed and 4th Ed codexii back, got my 5th lol

Synapse allows these transmissions to come through the WARP, to the creature in question.

The long and short of it is, Hive Mind In Warp, Casts Shadow that Affects Other psykers, uses synapse to allow communication with leader beasts, no warp acess means no synapse, no synapse means no Hive mind, no hive mind means no shadow

Except the 'Nids actively AVOID the Necrons in every fathomable way.

Yes, I know that, but Necrons can phase. All they do is phase to the next tomb world the Tyranids would come to and intercept them. You're forgetting that Necrons have fleets and won't just sit around; they will actively seek out enemies.

You can run but you damned well can't hide.

Nids avoid Crons like the plague. established fact. Crons probably see the Nids as useful tools. after all, everyone is so distracted by the nigh unstopable nids, that the crons can work on prepping themselves to sweep through the galaxy as they did in time long since passed into myth.

Avatar 720 wrote:

Except the 'Nids actively AVOID the Necrons in every fathomable way.

Yes, I know that, but Necrons can phase. All they do is phase to the next tomb world the Tyranids would come to and intercept them. You're forgetting that Necrons have fleets and won't just sit around; they will actively seek out enemies.

You can run but you damned well can't hide.

But the Necrons aren't hunting the 'Nids much, as the Tyranids are not disturbing them, it would be a different story if a Carnifex ran it's skull through a Tomb World ruin and then decided to alleviate himself on an obelisk...

My point is, that, if the Tyranids do not disturb the Necrons, then the Necrons will not attack, lest the C'Tan will it.

Reanimator wrote:They use the warp for travel but not anymore? I'm confused? My read of the codex fluff was that they didn't have warp drives or such tech, but rode gravity waves, so were slower than the races of other fleets, but not affected by things like warp storms etc.

You don't need warp drives to be effected by warp storms, they are breaking points between the warp and real space and effect everything that enters them.

@Foot: Well, who were you replying to to start with? The OP or my endgame post? If it was the OP then fair enough, we both meant different things, but my endgame post assumes just that; endgame; where the Necrons have fully awoken and have started to cleanse the Galaxy again.

It's not really been made clear.

There's nothing saying if the Hive mind is in the warp or not.

It's been said in fluff that people who have tried to use psychic powers have begun speaking in a tongues that they cannot properly pronounce.

That makes me think either the Hive Mind uses the warp to control the Tyranids or when opening up the psyker’s mind they become open to hive mind.

If the Hive mind is in the Warp where is it I wonder? Warp communication is not instant but the Hive Mind shares information with all its fleets but in combat decisions are made with no lag.

I've always imagined it as a big computer network with the synapse creatures as nodes running the hive mind as a kind of program. Still the fluff says that the Hive mind is not affected by the loss of its fleets.

It's still a hard one to get my head round.

Avatar 720 wrote:@Foot: Well, who were you replying to to start with? The OP or my endgame post? If it was the OP then fair enough, we both meant different things, but my endgame post assumes just that; endgame; where the Necrons have fully awoken and have started to cleanse the Galaxy again.

More to OP, given that the Necrons are currently still dormant.