Why no love for the lightning claw?

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**MechaEmperor7000**

Against MEQs, a Squad of 5 TH/SS termies will inflict 6.25 wounds before Invul Saves. Lightning Claw Termies in the same situation gives 7.25 wounds before saves.

Against MCs with an assumed WS of 4, TH/SS termies yield the same amount of wounds. LCs yield about 3 wounds (the numbers go on infinitely so I rounded).

Against GEQs with a WS of 4, TH/SS termies still yield the same thing, while LCs yield 11 or so wounds.

LCs are better for hordes than TH/SS. Going for baseline however. If Vulkan is part of the army, then the TH/SS will be superior to the LC in every department other than facing GEQs (although against GEQs, I'll likely not want to wipe out the entire squad in one go).

**Ailaros**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:(although against GEQs, I'll likely not want to wipe out the entire squad in one go).

True, but that's not likely anyways. LCs are for things like 30-man power blobs or 30-slugga mobs and the like. Ultrahorde units can be difficult for marines of either stripe to handle (but especially light-side), and this is one of the best counters.

Really, the question is more, do you need terminators that stick around longer, and handles MCs, or do you need terminators to kill infantry models?

**Melissia**

What about three ten man squads, which are designed to be wiped out and flee on the first assault so that the assaulting units are left with their ass hanging in the breeze?

It's a very common tactic for Guard players.

**Ailaros**

I'm sure it does a lot for them in KP games.

Plus, if a unit is really designed to be destroyed after a single turn of assault (say, conscripts without a commissar nearby), then thunderhammers will ALSO cause them to break.

Really, the problem is when you come up against horde units that are designed to stay in combat. This is where LCs help.

**MechaEmperor7000**

TH/SS combo currently is just more tactically flexible, as against vehicles it inflicts a Shaken result in addition to anything else, as well as performing admirably in the other fields. Before when the SS only gave a 4+ invul save in close combat, they were alot more susceptable to Plasma gun fire or other Termie-killer weapons, which made it a huge drawback to use with their I1. For the same points (especially if you have Vulkan) TH/SS is just a better choice overall.

**Amaya**

My friend who plays BT always runs a 5 man LC squad with a Chaplain. Furious charge + reroll misses + reroll wounds pretty much wipes out anything it hits.

**Melissia**

Ailaros wrote:I'm sure it does a lot for them in KP games.

KP games themselves are unbalanced anyway, so it's not something that I tend to be concerned with.

**MechaEmperor7000**

wounding on a 2+ is actually better odds than wounding on a 4+ with rerolls, hence why LC kill ratios only go up with more attacks AND lower toughness opponents. With a Chaplain, each single TH hit has a higher chance of wounding than Lightning Claws.

Also, I should also point out that on top of the similar to higher kill ratios, Thunder Hammers also insta-kills anything short of an Ogryn or Eternal Warrior, and stuns whoever that can survive.