Jubear wrote:notabot187 wrote:Far Seer wrote:Cool. So I was thinking of taking a few BW with the green tide, could that work? Btw, did I mention how awesome snikrots model looks? I want to play an army list that has lots of models because Ive collected 2 elite armies(BA and eldar) so I want a nice change
No, BWs are an expensive choice, and their speed makes your army a 2 wave one. As in you get killed in 2 waves.
Even if you go for a more elite ork army you should outnumber your opponent. Don't force yourself into green tide. For the most part it is a gimmick army that only beats people who have evolved their lists too far towards anti mech, or against new players who don't know how to handle hordes.
Also, don't buy into the propaganda that the ork boy is amazing, because it actually isn't. They die really easy, and are chumps against anything decent in
CC. Against some opponents boyz are extra wounds for the nobs... They have their uses, and they are fairly solid, but don't lean too hard on them because they will let you down. The green tide is all boyz... so you can see why I don't recommend it. (also boring to play... 30 minute movement phase, throw 90 dice, kill 5 marines kind of boring)
How do BWs turn your army into a 2 wave attack? The idea is you spam them so anything that is trying to get into
CC is in a BW and because of the
KFF the are nearly always bunched up and hit the same spot of the enemys line at the same time.
Also Ork boyz are amazing at 6 points a model the fact that you deny this means anything else you post on the subject is invalid because you are clueless.
Aslo green tide at smaller points values is amazing and almost impossible to beat as very few armies can deal with the sheer amount of bodies coming at them.
That being said I have ran into issues with greentide list and folks not wanting to play against it because they are slow to play due to having to move so many models so you got one thing right.
Personal attacks?
Just because you disagree with one point of opinion doesn't invalidate everything someone says.
BWs in a green tide army makes target priority easy. Kill the wagons first, then go after the foot sloggers. It also gives the anti tank weapons of your opponent something to do. On of the strengths of an all foot army is that the lascannons and meltas your opponent most likely is spending a good portion of his army on is no more effective than a simple bolter.
If you are going with BWs, it means you are probably putting cargo that is actually good like burna boyz or nobs into them. So the BW squad is 100+ for the wagon, and around 200+ for the guys inside. This makes your footsloggin element smaller, especially if you do this a couple of times like he was suggesting. A green tide without numbers is a army that is going to get shot up. If you put boyz into the BW, what is the point? The wagon gets destroyed, and the boyz lose 1/3 of their numbers (open topped means 5+ explodes which is more likely than just wrecked, and if it is AP1 it explodes on a 4+) 20 boyz reduced by 1/3 aren't a real threat. They are bolter bait. Green tides biggest strength is providing such a large mass of numbers hitting at the same time that it makes targeting priority a matter of which units are you going to let get over run, and which units will you try to save. A 2 wave army lets you focus the entire armies fire power on 1/2 the enemy, in the case of the BW+
GT army, the first wave is small, and the second wave is unikley to reach until turn 3-4.
A pile of garbage is a good deal if it is cheap enough and you have an use for it. Doesn't make it not garbage. At 6 points for an ork you get a model that is more expensive than a guardsman, less options, lower armor save, worse
LD (sarges in guard have 8) worse
BS, worse initiative. What do you get for these weaknesses? Higher toughness,
FC, 2 base attacks, S4 assault weapons (which occasionally hit), fearless if numbers are higher than 11(often a liability in
CC) and the honor of taking a
PK guy who costs more than a terminator, with a 6+ save and 2 wounds. I would actually say they would still be worth it if the ork boy had base I3. That would let the boyz hit at the same time as most armies, and before guardsmen if they charged, and if charged would get to attack at the same time as guard. Also, fearless in assaults sucks for 6+ save models. Combined with how Combat Res is done it really hammers big mobs of orks who lose in models lost, but not in points exchange in
cc (though points don't matter in most games, orks are supposedly strong because they kill more than their points worth of stuff...)
At 1000 points I've beaten 120 boyz, it wasn't easy for my
SMs, since they only had 2 regular flamers and 2 heavy flamers, but they got the job done with 2
tac flamer combat squads, 2 landspeeders, and 2
ML combat squads (refused flank, rhino and speeders are fast enough to choose where they want to be, rolled up the line with flamer attacks, killing most of the army, one mob at a time) My Siters of Battle beat green tide at any points... but that is what they do best with all the flamers, heavy flamers, and transport to strike where they want to. My Daemons also beat green tide, in fact, the only lists that really lose green tide are ones that are overly committed to taking out mech, or are naturally low on volume of fire (grey knights).
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