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Jubear wrote:

Anvildude wrote:Never liked how everyone's always "Oh, you have to have this, this and this in the most chaotic army fluff-wise" about Orks. I say go with the original post. Seems strong enough to me, with a couple squads of boyz for rushing the front lines, Grotz for holding home objectives, mid-sized Loota squad for taking potshots across the board, and if I read it right, those Looted Wagons are for the Boomgunz, so probably won't be moving that much.

Only thing I'd suggest is maybe replace one of the Looted Wagons with a Battlewagon, just to have that extra presence on the board, and the option of a deffrolla or greater transport. And with the Killcanon upgrade (yeah, you lose some transport capacity) you're getting a weapon only one point less 'strong' than the Boomgun, but otherwose pretty similar.

After that, it's just careful setup, and a set of blue dice.


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Erudog wrote:

Jubear wrote:
And who the feth puts kustom mega blasters on anything? They are overpriced for what they do and orks kill ap2 by causing a gakload of wounds not by bringing a few crappy ap 2 guns.

I am going to assume that you do not play many games, cant mathhammer and loose alot

First of all, it's a hobby that's meant to be fun. Relax, and don't try to make people feel like gak over the internet...do it in real time with all the risks involved with acting that way please. In other words, try not to contribute to the Internet F**kwad Theory.

Anyway, why do you say KMB's are overpriced? They are only 5 points more than Rokkit Launchas, and they seem to almost always be the better choice on Kanz unless you are really swamped for points. They have 1 less AP, same range, same strength, with Get's Hot! - which won't apply to his Kan. He can take out Terminators and any other +2 Sv models with no problem and no drawbacks from KMB on Kanz. Granted, I personally wouldn't use it on any other unit, but it seems to made perfectly for the Kan application.

THANK YOU! Finally, someone else sees the benefit! I thought I was going crazy for a while, with everybody gushing about Rokkit Kanz and nobody seeming to notice that, hey, for five points more, you can have AP 2!

Though honestly I find that you might as well take KMBs on Deffkoptaz (at least I do) with the speed at which they die. Though perhaps the twin-linkage might be worth the extra 5 points...

KMB on deff kopters aint twin linked so you paying an extra 5 points for a weapon that wont hit anything (BS2 with TL=55% chance of hitting) as opposed to a 1 in 3 without TL and also never ever take boomguns on BWs why give up the ability to drop 20 models off into CC on turn 2 for a sub par battlecannon?

The main question was about putting KMB's on Kanz, not Koptas...that was Anvildude's idea of putting KMB's on Koptas too. I personally wouldn't do anything but TL Rokkits + Buzzsaw on Kopters...everything else doesn't seem to work as well. I can see KMB's on them for certain applications I suppose...

Why not for 5 points put a weapon that is inherently better than Rokkits with no drawbacks. You can shoot and wound Termies from across the board with a KMB. Seems to be a no brainer, unless you are EXTREMELY swamped on points.

because I am generally struggling to keep points under 1500 and I dont want to put extra points into a unit on the odd chance that I will be facing +2 saves. At 5 points they seem like a no brainer and if you know you are going to be facing termies then its a valid option but otherwise that 30 points (assuming its going on atleast 6 kans) buys me another PK

Yeah, besides most termies will have a 3++ save anyway.

Jubear wrote:

BossGlefang wrote:Its interesting because I am building a similar list for a tourney, but I went a different route. I don't know why people say Trukks are rubbish, for a very cheap amount they are fast and useful, sure they will likely be exploded by the end of the game, but their only purpose is to move your boyz 19' a turn and then drop them off the next, like a taxi thats likely to blow up soon afterwards. If you are going for the Mech list, go all out I say, and cram it full of Killa Kans and 2 Deff Dreads (with two big meks each only takes up a troop choice*) Have a few boyz accompany the Big Meks and have them there for KFF, to give cover save to all your walkers. Give all the Kans Kustom Mega blastas and you have 9 decent shooters who can hurt all but Land Raiders and Monoliths at range, and can even hurt land raiders if they get close enough.

Are you trolling? This is horrible advice bordering on cruel if someone actaully follows it and ends up buying a useless collection of models.

Trucks are garbage not because they always blow up by the end of the game but because they always blow up at the end of the first turn and then have a 1 in 3 chance of scattering and sending your boyz of in a useless direction.

And who the feth puts kustom mega blasters on anything? They are overpriced for what they do and orks kill ap2 by causing a gakload of wounds not by bringing a few crappy ap 2 guns.

I am going to assume that you do not play many games, cant mathhammer and loose alot

Nice just go straight into insults. I actually win quite a bit, by the way its lose not loose, and its a lot, not alot. Insults and poor grammar aside, I have actually had a great deal of success using Trukks, and while you clearly disagree I have found them to be useful. As for the Kustom Mega Blastas, if you read the Ork Tactica on this site, the author recommends them, I found them useful on the only BS 3 in the army which can move and fire them (Killa Kans). I typically face marine armies, so having something to kill terminators easily is a boon.

I WISH KMBs were Melta. No, they're just Gets Hot!. Unfortunately.

Anvildude wrote:I WISH KMBs were Melta. No, they're just Gets Hot!. Unfortunately.

Ah, yes silly me, looked that up to be sure. Really seems like they should be doesn't it?

Thanks to whoever understood my point of Dreads soaking up firepower. I faced a Tau player, and even tho the Dread wouldn't have hit anything in HtH until turn 3-4, because it had KMB's a lot of dakka was thrown at it from battlesuits until it got immobilized by Hammerhead firepower. Even then I still had 1 DCCW and 1 KMB. Worth all 120 points of it.

As for the AT comments, Orks got rolled in the dex. The KMB SHOULD have been melta, and instead of Tankbustas getting Tank Hunters, they got Glory Hogs. Even tho Orks were the fething 1st to have the damn rule. I swear that GW is smoking crack sometimes. Has anyone seen the Chaos Daemons, C:SM, and the Nid dex? My God GW, what the fffffffffluke happened? I'm almost hesitant to hope for another Ork dex... I think I'll stick with our crappy one for now before they make an even crappier version. I bet next thing you know you won't even be able to have any type of Looted stuff. Lootas will probably revert back to the Gets Hot rule and sure enough every Ork player will have useless models on the shelf collecting dust like my Lotoed basilisks and Russ's. God damn GW...and not just for taking Turbo-boosters off our Meganobz...

theduncan wrote:@Skarshak what kind of list do you play to get 44 wins to 7 losses?

Are you one of those people who stomp over noobs then refuse to play them when they get better?

No offense meant, just a very lopsided W:L ratio.

No offence taken Now dont forget the 8 draws i had too! So thats a total of 15 games i did not win.. so far roughly 1/4 of the games i've played!
No i don't face noobs and refuse to play em till they get better, i'm not like that!

Actually i've been playing with the same group of gamerz (10 of us) for the last 2 years!
In regards to my scorecard, i've simply been lucky for the most part & alot of times i've only sqeeked a victory when i do win!
With the Orkz, I never play the same list over n over during a particular game session, I'll mix it up to keep my fellow gamers guessing!

Jubear wrote:Trucks are horrible units Id would drop them and replace them with BW if you wanna go mech.

To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

Boss_Lugbitz wrote:
To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

+1, well said!

Boris420 wrote:Thanks to whoever understood my point of Dreads soaking up firepower. I faced a Tau player, and even tho the Dread wouldn't have hit anything in HtH until turn 3-4, because it had KMB's a lot of dakka was thrown at it from battlesuits until it got immobilized by Hammerhead firepower. Even then I still had 1 DCCW and 1 KMB. Worth all 120 points of it.

As for the AT comments, Orks got rolled in the dex. The KMB SHOULD have been melta, and instead of Tankbustas getting Tank Hunters, they got Glory Hogs. Even tho Orks were the fething 1st to have the damn rule. I swear that GW is smoking crack sometimes. Has anyone seen the Chaos Daemons, C:SM, and the Nid dex? My God GW, what the fffffffffluke happened? I'm almost hesitant to hope for another Ork dex... I think I'll stick with our crappy one for now before they make an even crappier version. I bet next thing you know you won't even be able to have any type of Looted stuff. Lootas will probably revert back to the Gets Hot rule and sure enough every Ork player will have useless models on the shelf collecting dust like my Lotoed basilisks and Russ's. God damn GW...and not just for taking Turbo-boosters off our Meganobz...

Actually, the current ork dex is very good, just look at dash of pepper and his army.
You are probably not using the right ork units.
Warboss - good
Big mek - good
Weirdboy - okay
Nobz - good
Meganobz- okay
Burna boyz - okay
Lootas - good
Tankbustaz - bad
Kommandos - okay
Boyz - good
Gretchin - okay
Trukks - okay
Stormboyz - bad
Warbuggies - okay
Deffkoptas - good
Battlewagon - good
Deff dreads - okay
Killa kans - good
Flash gitz - bad
Big gunz - bad
Looted wagons - bad

@ Skarshak
Sorry if I came across a little rude, it was just that I had seen a guy with a tourny IG list beat up on a fun fluffy vanilla marines list played by a 10 year old. The mech IG lost interest suddey when I asked to play him with my mech BA. He had to go home my ass.

Boss_Lugbitz wrote:

Jubear wrote:Trucks are horrible units Id would drop them and replace them with BW if you wanna go mech.

To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

Bws let you do all those things and also have the option that is one of the ork codex very limited access to Str10 and its like gold to orks because we dont have melta.

Thats before you even get into the AV14 and better transport capacity.

Boss_Lugbitz wrote:

Jubear wrote:Trucks are horrible units Id would drop them and replace them with BW if you wanna go mech.

To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

lol . Battlewagons can do exactly the same thing and have better armour. Plus they hold my Boyz which means that will lost longer than your 12 Boyz. Why you taking Nobz in a Trukk for? Why you even taking 'Ard Boyz?

Trukks are fail. Nobz in a Trukk is fail and so are 'Ard Boyz.

never mind, brain fart

Jubear wrote:
Bws let you do all those things and also have the option that is one of the ork codex very limited access to Str10 and its like gold to orks because we dont have melta.

Orkz do indeed have access to Melta... its a lone psychic ability that the Ork Weirdboy can do called Zzap!
36" range, Str 10, AP 2, Melta - Auto hit to boot
Page 37 - Ork Dex

mercer wrote:

Boss_Lugbitz wrote:

Jubear wrote:Trucks are horrible units Id would drop them and replace them with BW if you wanna go mech.

To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

lol . Battlewagons can do exactly the same thing and have better armour. Plus they hold my Boyz which means that will lost longer than your 12 Boyz. Why you taking Nobz in a Trukk for? Why you even taking 'Ard Boyz?

Trukks are fail. Nobz in a Trukk is fail and so are 'Ard Boyz.

Actually Battlewagons are slightly slower, as they are not fast vehicles.

I also laugh at people that bash trukks and call them crap. Ive proved that point more then a few times at my table. Like all Ork builds, when done right they can do damage, but when done wrong, they suck

mercer wrote:

Boss_Lugbitz wrote:

Jubear wrote:Trucks are horrible units Id would drop them and replace them with BW if you wanna go mech.

To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

lol . Battlewagons can do exactly the same thing and have better armour. Plus they hold my Boyz which means that will lost longer than your 12 Boyz. Why you taking Nobz in a Trukk for? Why you even taking 'Ard Boyz?

Trukks are fail. Nobz in a Trukk is fail and so are 'Ard Boyz. [/quo


This man knows his stuff and speaks the truth


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Skarshak wrote:

Jubear wrote:
Bws let you do all those things and also have the option that is one of the ork codex very limited access to Str10 and its like gold to orks because we dont have melta.

Orkz do indeed have access to Melta... its a lone psychic ability that the Ork Weirdboy can do called Zzap!
36" range, Str 10, AP 2, Melta - Auto hit to boot
Page 37 - Ork Dex

Oh yeah we have melta all we need to do to have access to it is buy one of the worst HQs in the dex and randomly roll that power AND actually be In range.....

BossGlefang wrote:

mercer wrote:

Boss_Lugbitz wrote:

Jubear wrote:Trucks are horrible units Id would drop them and replace them with BW if you wanna go mech.

To anyone who hates trukks-

Trukks are awesome. They're fast and give you a 20" assault range on the first turn. You can start 12" up the table, move up 12", disembark 2", then assault 6". this is a fantastic way to get your squad of 10 nobs, and your warboss into assault on the first turn. Rinse and repeat with 20 Ard Boyz out of a battlewagon on the flank. Send the rest of your army after objectives for victory

lol . Battlewagons can do exactly the same thing and have better armour. Plus they hold my Boyz which means that will lost longer than your 12 Boyz. Why you taking Nobz in a Trukk for? Why you even taking 'Ard Boyz?

Trukks are fail. Nobz in a Trukk is fail and so are 'Ard Boyz.

Actually Battlewagons are slightly slower, as they are not fast vehicles.

Indeed they are, but a Trukk can move 18" and the Orks CANNOT get out - both vehicles can move 12" and units get out, therefore the Battlewagon is better and carries more Orks to asborb wounds. 12 Orks do not last long and will run off easily.

KingCracker wrote:I also laugh at people that bash trukks and call them crap. Ive proved that point more then a few times at my table. Like all Ork builds, when done right they can do damage, but when done wrong, they suck

I laugh at people who say Trukks are win. They're armour 10, open topped which makes then patheticaly weak, even a S4 weapon could blow it up and then it will barrel roll in a random direction - that's not good for serious gamers. Trukks suck period whether you've got 10 or 1, the only difference is target saturation and that doesn't stop that thing from being rubbish.

Skarshak wrote:

Jubear wrote:
Bws let you do all those things and also have the option that is one of the ork codex very limited access to Str10 and its like gold to orks because we dont have melta.

Orkz do indeed have access to Melta... its a lone psychic ability that the Ork Weirdboy can do called Zzap!
36" range, Str 10, AP 2, Melta - Auto hit to boot
Page 37 - Ork Dex

Indeed they do but you're forgetting that the Weirdboy is a piss poor HQ choice and the power is random, you don't even know if you're going to get it - it's rubbish so correct term is Orks have little melta and it's not even reliable.

Nah, Fast means that that extra 6 inches isn't counted for purposes of disembark. I think. In any case, it is possible for the trukks to go all 19" and then have the boyz pile out and assault.

No it's not so a Trukk can go fast and move 18" but the Orks cannot get out, so it can only move 12" and the Orks bail out like a Battlewagon. You cannot assault out of a Trukk going 19", it only goes 18" without red paint job, you can only assault out of a Trukk if it goes 12", same as a Wagon as already mentioned.

You have to be careful with your trukks. Keep them out of LOS as much as possible. Hide them behind your BW if you have to. Put a reinforced ram on and after you dropped off your boyz start tanks shocking enemy squads, or if possible, tank shock one squad and assault a different one. If you're lucky you can get the tank shocked squad to fall back and tank shock ANOTHer squad. When they are killed, they aren't just dead. Sometimes they move even farther and then your models are even closer, AND if they have enough models the wont even have to take a pinning test. Additionally you have to keep in mind that trukks are cheap ass transports point wise. Keep them under 50 points. I only take reinfoced rams and thats it.

Yes i have a battlewagon and love it, but you have to keep in mind you can take 3 trukks for the price of a battlewagon. Trukks are worth their points


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Also orks dont need melta. Thats what we have power klaws for

Trucks are an important tool in the Ork toolbox. I always have 1-2 (usually behind the Battlewagons, or sneaking up the flanks)

Last game I ran a 'hidden' truck out into the middle of the board and 'boarding-planked' a Stormraven. Wrecked. Out drop Assault Termies. Yes, they ate the truck. Yes my 12 pitiful boys were pinned. Yes they died like dogs without inflicting one wound (maybe the nob did one?) BUT I spent 162 points to drop my opponent's deathstar unit out in the wilderness. They never made a contribution to the battle, and he really could have used them. My other truck flat-out'd across the board to drop my MANZ troops on his objective where they ate the sniper scouts for lunch and won me the game.

This was my Battlewagon list. My BWs only traveled about 14 inches and won my objective from the rest of his army. That looked like the main battle, but the trucks actually won the game.

Point is: trucks do suck - but sometimes you just need a fast unit that sucks.



PS - I like your Junkyard list. I would definitely add Kans and only run 1 (or maybe 2) Boomgun wagons for flavor. A Battlewagon might draw as much fire as a Dread and survive (with a KFF). I love Mek lists too.

KingCracker wrote:I also laugh at people that bash trukks and call them crap. Ive proved that point more then a few times at my table. Like all Ork builds, when done right they can do damage, but when done wrong, they suck

Amen Brother

I know I am going to catch a lot of heat for this, but i like boomwagons. And stormboyz.

First off, boomwagons are lots of fun to convert, I have a looted raider that looks like an amazing pirate ship and a looted monolith on treads being pulled along by a bunch of grotz. Don't press dat is represented by the grave-plate momentarily kicking up.

Stormboyz also look really cool.

But, in gaming purposes, strength 8 ordnance contributes an important aspect to ork armys. The ability to pop AV 14 at a range. I've got two boomwagons witha killkannon wagon full of lootas and mek w/ KFF to provide obscured for all the tanks, and it spits out a helluva load of firepower.

Also, 20 stormboyz w/zagstrukk=priceless. Anouther great way to pop tanks. Also, a good objective contender, and just a great unit in my opinion.

This, of course, is all my opinion. You can spew out a thousand reasons why i'm stupid for taking them, but I love my looted wagons and stormboyz, and nothings going to change that.

KingCracker wrote:I also laugh at people that bash trukks and call them crap. Ive proved that point more then a few times at my table. Like all Ork builds, when done right they can do damage, but when done wrong, they suck

^this


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Also, stormboyz are good but only in big squads

loota boy wrote:I know I am going to catch a lot of heat for this, but i like boomwagons. And stormboyz.

First off, boomwagons are lots of fun to convert, I have a looted raider that looks like an amazing pirate ship and a looted monolith on treads being pulled along by a bunch of grotz. Don't press dat is represented by the grave-plate momentarily kicking up.

Stormboyz also look really cool.

But, in gaming purposes, strength 8 ordnance contributes an important aspect to ork armys. The ability to pop AV 14 at a range. I've got two boomwagons witha killkannon wagon full of lootas and mek w/ KFF to provide obscured for all the tanks, and it spits out a helluva load of firepower.

Also, 20 stormboyz w/zagstrukk=priceless. Anouther great way to pop tanks. Also, a good objective contender, and just a great unit in my opinion.

This, of course, is all my opinion. You can spew out a thousand reasons why i'm stupid for taking them, but I love my looted wagons and stormboyz, and nothings going to change that.

My only complaint is with this. Ive never played with stormboyz but I can see how they can be used to good effect, and I too LOVE boomguns. They are cool, and can just murder units. But relying on a str8 weapon to pop av14? Erm.........no. First you got to get a good hit on the vehicle (not so easy with templates) and then roll a 6. Then roll a 6 again to actually make that av14 stop moving, but itll still be shooting at you.
Really the only reliable ways for Orks to handle AV14 is to ignore it/deff rolla(this works the best if you can get there)/warboss pk/DCCW and notice how none of those are shooting attacks


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I laugh at people who say Trukks are win. They're armour 10, open topped which makes then patheticaly weak, even a S4 weapon could blow it up and then it will barrel roll in a random direction - that's not good for serious gamers. Trukks suck period whether you've got 10 or 1, the only difference is target saturation and that doesn't stop that thing from being rubbish

Well yea, if you over simplify how a trukk works, and point out all the negatives and in a perfect situation where any bolter that fires at them will roll the absolute best rolls possible, yea your right, they are auto exploding, causing 2D6 strD attacks to every unit including the person playing the army. Honestly you could do that for most units in the game, the units that are just pure awesome with no downfalls is few and far between. As Ive said before if you use them correctly the trukk is a bargain. itll cover 19 inches first turn, if that trukk doesnt go down itll go another 12 inches and then dump out boyz that can assault. Over 30 inches and then an assault? Ouch, so on turn 2, any trukk that isnt blown up (and taking KFF saves/cover saves from terrain this is rather easy to pull off) I have assault boyz on your lines.

But thats just pushing trukks. Personally Ill run 2 battle wagons as linebreakers, with rokkit buggy squadrons on the sides of them. Behind the BW is the mass of trukks, and depending on terrain everything is covered by a KFF. Ive hit lines with my entire army intact a few times. And in the worst case scenario, a BW will blow up, in which case the trukks just pour out from the whole and keep on trukking. So yea, turn 2 possibly 3 depending on the table is set up, you keep on shooting, Ill keep on ignoring half those shots, and the BWs fronts have a good chance of ignoring everything else you got, and then my army will hulksmash the lines and do what they do. Thanks to trukks. If that is suck, then Ill stick with the suck, because when Im playing against a good player, that build is my goto build.

Well, I play against eldar and ravenwing marines, so I don't have to worry about any armour higher than 12. Of course, eldar waveserpents have those shield thingys that deny ordnance, but other wise, it's golden. I personally don't use trukks, but any map with decent amounts of terrain should hide you long enough to get there. So long as you keep them cheap, I can see how they could be usefull.

Well I against weaker tanks and armor, I do agree with you on the range thing. Im a big fan of rokkits, the fact that Orks can spam the ever living pooh out of rokkits, makes me a happy camper. Currently Im running a list that throws 21 str8 ap3 a turn. Sure some of it is Ork BS, but that many rokkits just murders things.