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Well take the Necron Tomb Stalker - would you refuse to play that as its FW? Its a unit addition to a codex over 10 years old - not the end of the world is it?

Vaktathi wrote:Again, Tournaments not allow IA has nothing to do with balance, and Tournament allowance has no bearing on anything outside of any particular Tournament, why is that so hard to understand? It's completely irrelevant.

And once more, the overwhelmingly vast majority of FW units aren't unbalanced, far less so than what you get in the normal codecies.

I don't have any problems using my FW stuff. Never have. I'm just sorry when I see opinions like yours expressed, because it means that players in your group obviously do have such problems, that show how much you just don't know about FW either as an organization, their relationship to the game, or their actual rules and units despite most being free downloads from their website.

Look through the rulebook. Get back to me if you find a rule that defines what is "official" or not, besides a blurb about being Citadel models, which Forgeworld models very much are.

Ive mentioned twice that I have no problem with IA units being taken in friendly games and dosent the rulebook mention something about picking your army list from the relevant codex..

Jubear wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Again, Tournaments not allow IA has nothing to do with balance, and Tournament allowance has no bearing on anything outside of any particular Tournament, why is that so hard to understand? It's completely irrelevant.

And once more, the overwhelmingly vast majority of FW units aren't unbalanced, far less so than what you get in the normal codecies.

I don't have any problems using my FW stuff. Never have. I'm just sorry when I see opinions like yours expressed, because it means that players in your group obviously do have such problems, that show how much you just don't know about FW either as an organization, their relationship to the game, or their actual rules and units despite most being free downloads from their website.

Look through the rulebook. Get back to me if you find a rule that defines what is "official" or not, besides a blurb about being Citadel models, which Forgeworld models very much are.

Ive mentioned twice that I have no problem with IA units being taken in friendly games and dosent the rulebook mention something about picking your army list from the relevant codex..

That's just it - IA units are additions to codices. Unless they're a super heavy or gargantuan creature (which are limited to Apocalypse or games above 2000 points anyway), they say 'this unit counts as a HQ/Troops/Elite/Fast Attack/Heavy Support unit in codex x'.

Unless, of course, they're a whole list in the IA book, in which case, the IA book is your codex.

Jubear wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Again, Tournaments not allow IA has nothing to do with balance, and Tournament allowance has no bearing on anything outside of any particular Tournament, why is that so hard to understand? It's completely irrelevant.

And once more, the overwhelmingly vast majority of FW units aren't unbalanced, far less so than what you get in the normal codecies.

I don't have any problems using my FW stuff. Never have. I'm just sorry when I see opinions like yours expressed, because it means that players in your group obviously do have such problems, that show how much you just don't know about FW either as an organization, their relationship to the game, or their actual rules and units despite most being free downloads from their website.

Look through the rulebook. Get back to me if you find a rule that defines what is "official" or not, besides a blurb about being Citadel models, which Forgeworld models very much are.

Ive mentioned twice that I have no problem with IA units being taken in friendly games and dosent the rulebook mention something about picking your army list from the relevant codex..

Can we just try to make this discussion a little friendlier, please?

I know that you've mentioned that you have no problem with IA items in certain contexts, but some of your other comments about overpowered units and non-official have been a bit flip and unnecessarily inflammatory.

Just keep it civil, guys.

I know IA 1 and 2 say you can use them in standerd 40k games, but has any of then since 5th edtion said this.

Noir wrote:I know IA 1 and 2 say you can use them in standerd 40k games, but has any of then since 5th edtion said this.

Why would it matter? Even if nothing recent said it, that'd be like arguing that you can't play Necrons or Eldar since they haven't had anything out in 5th edition that says you can use them.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Noir wrote:I know IA 1 and 2 say you can use them in standerd 40k games, but has any of then since 5th edtion said this.

Why would it matter? Even if nothing recent said it, that'd be like arguing that you can't play Necrons or Eldar since they haven't had anything out in 5th edition that says you can use them.

Well the BRB say Codex (both Necron and Eldar are Codex). Why wouldn't they of add IA books to the line about book you can use. Maybe they decide for 5th not to add it and to stop letting FW putting there go ahead and use it line in IA. It would be so easy to do. By not doing it maybe there saying something. But, they loss money by coming right out and say IA is not a auto include.

Noir wrote:I know IA 1 and 2 say you can use them in standerd 40k games, but has any of then since 5th edtion said this.

It's more the fact that they don't say you require opponents permission. Because they're official expansions to the game.

Noir wrote:
Well the BRB say Codex (both Necron and Eldar are Codex). Why wouldn't they of add IA books to the line about book you can use. Maybe they decide for 5th not to add it and to stop letting FW putting there go ahead and use it line in IA. It would be so easy to do. By not doing it maybe there saying something. But, they loss money by coming right out and say IA is not a auto include.

Except the BRB does flat out say that Forge World makes Warhammer 40k models, I'd call that enough to say that you are allowed to use models, and attached rules.

Jubear wrote:dosent the rulebook mention something about picking your army list from the relevant codex..

Noir wrote:Why wouldn't they of add IA books to the line about book you can use.

What the rulebook actually says about building armies is that "the best way to do this is to use the full lists in the relevant codex book".

Units and lists in expansion books or White Dwarf are just as official as those in Codexes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Noir wrote:I know IA 1 and 2 say you can use them in standerd 40k games, but has any of then since 5th edtion said this.

What type of game would you use a 40K army list for? You don't need an army list for Apoc - just unit info.

The intro to both IA Apoc books (which are collections of rules, unlike the other IA books which are primarily campaign books) talks about this issue in some detail (especially the first which is published in '07, just before 5th was released). The second of those was published during 5th edition.

The units that can be included in a codex army are clearly marked as such - e.g. Grot Tanks have in their entry "Grot Tanks may be taken as an Elite choice in a Codex Orks army, as long as the army also contains at least one Big Mek".

Whereas, for example, a Warkopta does not have this so it is not available for a Codex Orks army to select. The only army list that includes this unit is the Dread Mob army list.