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2011/02/15 17:04:39
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Please quote where I said all people with a pro-life agenda believe that or that no other reasons (even legitimate ones) exist. I was merely trying to answer why some people "try to force their views" as the other poster asked. For the record, my mother is head of the board for an organization full of people with the belief I described so they do exist.
Okay, I see the technical point there. But let me address it with a hypothetical: Person A asks "why do so many people like the Avatar movie" and Person B responds "some people believe they are actually Na'vi from Pandora trapped in human bodies." Undoubtedly, some tiny amount of people do like Avatar for that very reason. Does it explain in any way how the movie grossed almost three billion dollars? Not even remotely. The technical veracity of Person B's response does not make it any less misleading. Similarly, your response in this case is misleading. It's a piece of rhetoric whereby you associate a policy that you believe is totally unreasonable with a belief system that your audience will find totally unreasonable so as to confirm in the audience that the policy is unreasonable. It's exactly like saying Avatar is bad movie because some people like it based on their beliefs of being Na'vi trapped in human bodies.
'twas not my intention to mislead, I was merely trying to throw a viewpoint out there I wasn't even necessarily saying the bill was bad because of that reason, I was more relying on the fact that people get to kill other people as "common sense" to let it look bad all by itself. It's not the first time that my hyper-literal answers have been misunderstood nor will it be the last, I'm sure I typically say exactly what I mean.
Worship me.
2011/02/15 17:13:11
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Just be aware that proponents of these wacky laws love to be drawn out on arguments about the supernatural. The debate that inevitably results once their constituents have been suitably offended as to their religion provides excellent cover for introducing even wackier laws.
FM Ninja 048 wrote:So what stops a woman going to the next state over for an abortion
I don't get why the state needs to regulate this, make it avalible, and if you don't want to use it, don't. I don't see why they should try to force there veiws on other people.
Let's say that your friend is drunk. He wants to drive. If you give him his keys, there is a realistic danger that he might hurt somebody, or himself. If he does, do you not bear some measure of responsibility for his actions?
To extend this to abortion, many pro-life people see the fetus as having rights and value that mean that it should not be terminated, but rather, protected. Thus, they have the responsibility to do what they can to limit abortion; every abortion that occurs is one that could have been stopped.
Why they think that the fetus has rights and such varies from person to person, but mostly it's because of religion. And then you've got a double whammy, because one who performs an abortion or has one performed on them is committing a grievous sin. They need to be protected from themselves.
2011/02/15 19:06:03
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
mind blowing, I am embarrased with my country and its political decisions on an almost daily basis.
actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet.
2011/02/15 20:09:41
Subject: Re:South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
daedalus wrote:Wait... I just had a thought. So then, if it's legal to murder a doctor preparing to perform an abortion, because you're saving a life, would it be legal to murder an abortion doctor murderer because you're saving the doctor's life? Do you have to save the fetus at the same time? Can you murder both of them (the doctor and the hypothetical murderer) at the same time and it be justified?
I'm pretty sure that, through recursion, I can use this to justify killing all life (in South Dakota).
What if the abortion is being performed because to allow the foetus to come to term will threaten the mother's life?
May the the blessings of His Grace the Emperor tumble down upon you like a golden fog. (Only a VERY select few will get this reference. And it's not from 40k. )
2011/02/15 22:35:23
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
What if the abortion is being performed because to allow the foetus to come to term will threaten the mother's life?
Then the baby must die. Also the Father for putting it there.
And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole
2011/02/15 22:46:02
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Mr Meatballs wrote:Good ol' American south. so civilised so educated.
I live in the south, and I am not proud to admit it. So many stupid people around here. And yes, it is just as bad as people make it sound.
Again it helps to look on a map.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/02/15 22:47:43
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
May the the blessings of His Grace the Emperor tumble down upon you like a golden fog. (Only a VERY select few will get this reference. And it's not from 40k. )
2011/02/15 23:13:40
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Ribon Fox wrote:And here I thought this is how the US sees the world
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/02/16 03:40:44
Subject: Re:South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
I get that people can believe abortion is wrong. If you believe it is a human life and you want to protect human life, then it makes perfect sense. But I don't really get how those same people can have so little interest in protecting any life that isn't a foetus, to the point where they'd support expanding justifiable homicide against abortion doctors.
Meanwhile, all the talk of Americans being dumb reminds me of this;
Point is, we're all dumb, and most of us really, really don't know much about the world.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/02/16 03:49:34
Subject: Re:South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
sebster wrote: But I don't really get how those same people can have so little interest in protecting any life that isn't a foetus, to the point where they'd support expanding justifiable homicide against abortion doctors.
Because, sebster, none of it is really about life or religion or dignity at all. It's a self-perpetuating industry of political power at top and a pattern of self-validation at the bottom.
Manchu wrote:Because, sebster, none of it is really about life or religion or dignity at all. It's a self-perpetuating industry of political power at top and a pattern of self-validation at the bottom.
I'd have gone for the much more direct 'it's about women getting what they deserve for sleeping around' thing, personally.
Not that that's the position of all anti-abortionists, I know folk that are anti-abortionist but they extend their values of protecting human life to all human life, not just the unborn kind. I don't agree with those people on abortion but I understand their view and I respect it. The folk that only appear to be worried about life when it's in the womb and are otherwise pro-war, or pro-this justifiable homicide law - feth those people.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/02/16 03:56:32
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
On topic, I don't beleive this is write, and I doubt it will pass, even though I am pro-life.
I have always wondered, how differently things would be if this abortion debate had happened years ago and half of us were aborted by our parents. How many lives have each of us affected/been affected by? One girl I knew came from a family of bad people, drug users, alchohol problems, family abuse, the whole deal.... She saved my life, and her family is the sort where if abortion had been this popular back then, she wouldn't have been born....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/02/16 04:13:49
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2011/02/16 04:03:15
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
If you won't settle for maps we also have multimedia learning formats.
This abortion law is quite silly, but only allows relatives to murder the doctor, however it probably means that the murder MUST be committed at the time the abortion is being carried out. Last time I checked a family member is not likely going to risk shooting another family member at the time. Killing the doctor after the murder or before the murder should still be illegal under this law and if the person murdering the doctor isn't related then its illegal outright.
So this law may be passed with some caveats in it, but as it stands now probably not.
2011/02/16 04:15:25
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Slarg232 wrote:I have always wondered, how differently things would be if this abortion debate had happened years ago and half of us were aborted by our parents.
grumblegrumblegrumble
Abortion existed before Roe, it will exist even after it. We still exist as a species even if we allow women to choose openly instead of behind closed doors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/16 04:38:43
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2011/02/16 06:58:18
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Slarg232 wrote:On topic, I don't beleive this is write, and I doubt it will pass, even though I am pro-life.
I have always wondered, how differently things would be if this abortion debate had happened years ago and half of us were aborted by our parents. How many lives have each of us affected/been affected by? One girl I knew came from a family of bad people, drug users, alchohol problems, family abuse, the whole deal.... She saved my life, and her family is the sort where if abortion had been this popular back then, she wouldn't have been born....
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? How exactly is abortion supposed to be 'popular,' and you are, perhaps, aware that this isn't a modern invention, yes? If her family 'is the sort' like you say, then there was nothing stopping them from aborting her back back then. Anyways, it's a silly and pointless hypothetical, with about as much relevance to the discussion as, 'what if people had a 50% to spontaneously combust?' I don't know, the world would always smell like burning pork chops, but that doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/16 07:19:30
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
2011/02/16 08:07:37
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Slarg232 wrote:I have always wondered, how differently things would be if this abortion debate had happened years ago and half of us were aborted by our parents.
If half of us had been aborted we wouldn't be here to be part of the debate. That's kind of how abortion works.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/02/16 08:59:33
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Slarg232 wrote:I have always wondered, how differently things would be if this abortion debate had happened years ago and half of us were aborted by our parents.
If half of us had been aborted we wouldn't be here to be part of the debate. That's kind of how abortion works.
Well, duh.
One might suggest that the question that Slarg is asking is not what would have happened to the half of us that never existed, but what would have happened differently to the other half left alive.
2011/02/16 12:10:18
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
Mr Meatballs wrote:Good ol' American south. so civilised so educated.
I live in the south, and I am not proud to admit it. So many stupid people around here. And yes, it is just as bad as people make it sound.
Again it helps to look on a map.
Quit spamming about maps! What are you, a map salesman? We're trying to have a legitimate discussion about how ignorant the south is here!
You can't. Its just bigotry. You're not trying to be a bigot are you Cannerus?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/02/16 12:14:33
Subject: South Dakota moves to llegalize murdering Abortion doctors.
While you lot argue the toss in a pc manner, ill state the obvious.
It's religions fault.
You find me a sensible person who isn't religious who thinks this is anywhere near acceptable and ill show you a fething liar.
The only people who feel strongly enough about this issue to murder actual living people, are the staggeringly hypocritical followers of the desert god.
My loathing for them knows no bounds.
If my daughter was off for an abortion and she was merely verbally abused by one of them, they'd need a doctor themselves, but for major facial reconstruction not an abortion.
Many normal people feel strongly about the abortion issue, but none behave in as murderous or as aggressive a manner as the shower of gak that harp on about Jesus.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
I wasn't even necessarily saying the bill was bad because of that reason, I was more relying on the fact that people get to kill other people as "common sense" to let it look bad all by itself. It's not the first time that my hyper-literal answers have been misunderstood nor will it be the last, I'm sure 
I typically say exactly what I mean.
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