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Kirasu wrote:Any other unit is better inside the land raider is the point I think people are trying to make heh.. Tactical squads are possibly with the exception of scouts the worst unit in the book.. (or really any SM book)

So this complaint is based upon power gaming?

And yes, I know that GW has retconned the BA to be a power-gamey assault chapter. To bad really, because they were much cooler when they operated as a standard codex chapter with a "dark secret", not just a collection of models with jumppacks for everyone...

now they are just another tournament construct army that sadly attracts far too many mathhammer devotees...



that being said APOC. is NOT meant to be a competative format. GW has made this fairly clear, but some people insist that every time you step up to a table it has to be "s3rious buizn3ss111".

Apoc. is not a frmat that is compatible with mathhammer/powergaming.

If you dont see the fun in putting out lots of cool models and seing your friends doing likewise and trying to do crazy things with them, then I think you are missing the point of Apoc. tbh...

If peole want "gamey" lisst they can stick to regular 40K tournaments I would think...

CT GAMER wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Any other unit is better inside the land raider is the point I think people are trying to make heh.. Tactical squads are possibly with the exception of scouts the worst unit in the book.. (or really any SM book)

So this complaint is based upon power gaming?

And yes, I know that GW has retconned the BA to be a power-gamey assault chapter. To bad really, because they were much cooler when they operated as a standard codex chapter with a "dark secret".

now they are just another tournament construct army that sadly attracts far too many mathhammer devotees...



that being said APOC. is NOT not meant to be a competative format. GW has made this fairly clear, but some people insist that every time you step up to a table it has to be "s3rious buizn3ss111".

Apoc. is not a frmat that is compatible with mathhammer/powergaming.

If you dont see the fun in putting out lots of cool models and seing your friends doing likewise and trying to do crazy things with them, then I think you are missing the point of Apoc. tbh...

If peole want "gamey" lisst they can stick to regular 40K tournaments I would think...

No, people are saying good luck DSing that many land raiders within 6" of each other, and then watching the survivors get eaten by baneblades and other super heavies.

The idea of having a giant chance to lose your 250 pt tank with a 170 pt squad in it just doesnt appeal for some reason .

People debating Apocalypse Unit Balance makes AgeOfEgos glow on the inside.

I got 404'ed for some reason.

The GW website is showing Down for Maintenance right now.

Not for me.

CT GAMER wrote:I'm not refuting the logic or sillyness of the formation, but I will point out that some people play APOC. on BIG battlefields made up of multiple large tables connected in various ways such that both armies aren't just lined up in straight lines across from each other and ready to assault each other turn one.

Thus it could be a nice strategic move to deepstrike onto an area of the battlefield that you can't easily/quickly drive 18" to get at on turn one.

Call me crazy...

Yep, this. Apoc games played on long tables only 4' deep make Savnock an ANGRY NERD. Playing Apoc with defense-in-depth is a lot more fun. At least 6' wide by 10' long is what my group prefers, and 8' x 12' would be just right. Makes mobility, reserves, deep strike and assets a lot more important than just getting the first turn and charging more than 12 inches.

Back on the original topic, having to DS all those tanks right on top of each other makes up for getting fast Raiders and the ability to DS the Baal Predators for only 150 points. And perhaps an easygoing opponent would relax the strike force requirement to 9" or 12", or allow the force to reroll deviations.

Some apoc formations are very illogical.
The terminator formation meant to kill titans is a good example.

ThirdUltra wrote:
Not sure what you're thinking fluff-wise with the Thunderhawks.....but you do know that they are transports as well as gunships right?

They're referencing the Thunderhawk Transporter (see here), which is specific vehicle, of which the Blood Angels strangely only have 3.
Why an army that can deep strike Land Raiders from Thunderhawk Transporters only has 3 of these vehicles (each of which can only carry ONE Land Raider at a time) is anyone's guess. Seems like they would be spread very thinly through the fleet. Probably another case of GW writing fluff without considering the logistics, but as noted elsewhere in this thread, we're also talking about a formation of Land Raiders with altered engines, which according to their fluff is impossible.

Pyriel- wrote:Some apoc formations are very illogical.
The terminator formation meant to kill titans is a good example.

Agreed, but also APoc. allows you to make your own formations and in fact encourages you to do so and to approach playing with a "DIY" house-rule vibe.

Don't think a formationmakes sense? Tweak it or make your own version of it.

Want to try something a current formation doesn't cover? Write it up, run it by your opponent and play it.

etc.

Apoc. is meant to be player driven and an excuse to put many pretty models on a table and try "illogical" things with them. The breakdown happens when people assume it is a balanced format or approach it purely from a competative angle...

Pyriel- wrote:Some apoc formations are very illogical.
The terminator formation meant to kill titans is a good example.

There are a couple of books that show terminators taking out Reaver Titans (Word Bearers, Imperial Fists, etc). Thats what they were going for. Also, in Epic, terminators did a pretty good job at this role as well IF you had enough of them (you had to have almost the entire first company to do it though).

I think if you had enough storm shields, you'd have enough invuln saves