Mandrakes

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**Tmonster**

I have heard some people talk about the cronos C way. And they say it works. But i think it is to much of a guess.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Continuing on the mandrakes,
What do you all think of Their champion. I think he might be worth it. Contesting an objective at the end game and such things.

**Sir Pseudonymous**

BuFFo wrote:You want a dead unit? Succubus. Horrible. Almost as bad as the Decapitator....

Succubi are better than Archons if you don't have the points to spare on some of the special upgrades the Archon can take, and want something that will actually accompany the unit to the front unlike a haemonculus (since it lacks fleet, meaning you either lose it or crawl along). They're effectively five points cheaper than the Archon (counting combat drugs into the price), have +1 to WS and I, and a 4++ in close combat, in exchange for not being able to take a few potentially fun toys the Archon can get (namely, huskblades, WWPs, PGLs, and clone fields/shadow field, all of which are very expensive).

**Shelegelah**

Continuing on the mandrakes,
What do you all think of Their champion. I think he might be worth it. Contesting an objective at the end game and such things.

You talking about Kheradrhuak, the Decapitator? I've never personally used him, but he looks kind of useless to me. He's got potential to be kinda nasty in close combat, but his deployment rule (while cool and nifty-looking at first) is actually a big disadvantage. He's only got a 5+ invulnerable save, and he can't assault on the turn he enters the game. That really limits him, unfortunately. I think the general consensus is that he's about as useless as the Mandrakes. I don't think he's an Independent Character, either, so you can't join him up to anything.

Odds are that he'll pop up, you'll laugh maniacally (as the codex instructs you to do

) and then your opponent will shoot him with a single troops choice and end his life.

Yup. He's pretty terrifying.

**Fateweaver**

I second wyches being good. I love to assault thunderstorm terminators and wreck them over 2-3 assault phases.

**somerandomdude**

Shelegelah wrote:
Continuing on the mandrakes,
What do you all think of Their champion. I think he might be worth it. Contesting an objective at the end game and such things.

You talking about Kheradrhuak, the Decapitator? I've never personally used him, but he looks kind of useless to me. He's got potential to be kinda nasty in close combat, but his deployment rule (while cool and nifty-looking at first) is actually a big disadvantage. He's only got a 5+ invulnerable save, and he can't assault on the turn he enters the game. That really limits him, unfortunately. I think the general consensus is that he's about as useless as the Mandrakes. I don't think he's an Independent Character, either, so you can't join him up to anything.

Odds are that he'll pop up, you'll laugh maniacally (as the codex instructs you to do ) and then your opponent will shoot him with a single troops choice and end his life.

Yup. He's pretty terrifying.

Not trying to say he's super-fantastic awesome wrapped in a single model, but he would typically show up in cover, which would give him a 3+ and FNP. The biggest problem with him (and the Mandrakes) is the lack of offensive grenades. The pinning weapon helps with that a little bit, and gives you a chance to strike at initiative versus units in cover, which is the only place these guys really want to be.

I think a list that includes a Cronos and Flyers for pinning missiles might find a use for Mandrakes and The Decapitator, but that may be it. I'm still going to make a model for him, because that picture in the codex is awesome.

**Shelegelah**

Not trying to say he's super-fantastic awesome wrapped in a single model, but he would typically show up in cover, which would give him a 3+ and FNP. The biggest problem with him (and the Mandrakes) is the lack of offensive grenades. The pinning weapon helps with that a little bit, and gives you a chance to strike at initiative versus units in cover, which is the only place these guys really want to be.

I think a list that includes a Cronos and Flyers for pinning missiles might find a use for Mandrakes and The Decapitator, but that may be it. I'm still going to make a model for him, because that picture in the codex is awesome.

Yeah, like I said, I've never actually used him, so I can't tell you from experience how effective he'd be. Oooh, he does start with a pain token... I overlooked that before. I may have to give him a shot, although I'll not be surprised if he ends up failing spectacularly.

As for the grenade thing, I completely agree. In my opinion, grenade-equivalents and some sort of rending-equivalent are what the Mandrakes need, as I said earlier. The Cronos/Mandrake bit is interesting, but I don't think it synergizes with their infiltrating/outflanking... If it was a bit quicker I could see it working, but at the moment it'd take a lot of fancy manoeuvring to get it just right. Then again, deployment and terrain are fickle beasts... This requires testing!

**Savist**

somerandomdude wrote:Has anyone used Mandrakes in a Cronos list?

I haven't had the chance to make a list with a Cronos yet, but (in theory) that's where their strength is. The Dark Eldar codex is basically one cheat after another, and one of the key things they have is PfP and the ability to give units special abilities that they don't even have to pay for. The units are cheap already, and become even more so when they get a few pain tokens.

Mandrakes have an even further ability of putting out a lot of 18" shots (from cover) in order to cause some annoyance. People say that the problem is getting them a token, which either requires A) a Haemy, which doesn't utilize their Infiltrate to its fullest one way or another, B) them to kill a unit, which they can only do in assault if they don't have a token already, or C) having a Cronos kill a single model 18" away.

Which of these is the smart choice? C. Which have I never heard anyone talk about? C.

Once they get their first token, the number of shots they can put out + assault could bring them a second one after a little bit of work.

I'm not saying it works (because I haven't had the time to get a Cronos built or tool a list to take advantage of one) but I AM saying that it's the best chance Mandrakes probably have.

I'm sorry but this is a terrible idea. If a 5 man squad of mandrakes (75 pts) which will maybe kill 1 marine with shooting and probably not pin them, is only good when a 110 point Cronos is there to give them a pain token you are waisting 185 points on a gimmick that will probably not work, and you still need the Cronos to kill something and be withing 12 of the mandrakes, I just don't see it being worth it. For the cost of both those squads you can take a ravager and almost a true born squad which will give you far better results. I think the Cronos is probably one of the worse choices in the codex when compared to ravagers and even the planes. Your spending 110 points to get a bad unit to do slightly better, when those points could be better spend somewhere else. I think that 75 points of wyches will out do anything the mandrakes can do and they are scoring.

If you want a unit that kills troops with shooting take a venom with 2 splinter cannons. If you want a unit that will kill troops in assault take wyches. Both those units will do better and be cheaper than mandrakes with a cronos.

**asimo77**

I think it's a damn shame that Mandrakes have such awesome fluff and models and are so underwhelming. Then the Decapitator who has some of the best SC fluff out there (very Lovecraftian) is probably the worst SC DE can field.

Mandrakes can be semi-useful but are still highly situational. I wonder how a Haemonculus attached to them coming out of a WWP would fare?

As a side note I plan on using 3-5 soley for the models.

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Savist wrote:If you want a unit that kills troops with shooting take a venom with 2 splinter cannons. If you want a unit that will kill troops in assault take wyches. Both those units will do better and be cheaper than mandrakes with a cronos.

Razorwings do a better job of shooting up troops than a venom, and hellions are almost as good at it, while being quite good in melee too.

**Savist**

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Savist wrote:If you want a unit that kills troops with shooting take a venom with 2 splinter cannons. If you want a unit that will kill troops in assault take wyches. Both those units will do better and be cheaper than mandrakes with a cronos.

Razorwings do a better job of shooting up troops than a venom, and hellions are almost as good at it, while being quite good in melee too.

yes, that is a good point. I know that they should be able to kill troops, I just don't have first hand experience with them. But regardless, I would rather have hellions or razorwings in a list than mandrakes.

**Shelegelah**

I think it's a damn shame that Mandrakes have such awesome fluff and models and are so underwhelming. Then the Decapitator who has some of the best SC fluff out there (very Lovecraftian) is probably the worst SC DE can field.

I know! I couldn't have expressed it better myself. I feel myself starting another rant, though, so I better nip myself in the bud here.

**Ketara**

Savist wrote:
I think the Cronos is probably one of the worse choices in the codex when compared to ravagers and even the planes. Your spending 110 points to get a bad unit to do slightly better, when those points could be better spend somewhere else.

I disagree. I think a single Cronos in a Webway list that contains Wyches, Incubi, and Talos is a perfectly feasible option.