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Enough of these threads.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Enough of these threads.

Just becuase you aren't interested doesn't mean others aren't. The fact that they keep cropping up means that there is interest.

Or that we are all masochists.

pretre wrote:

VikingScott wrote:

pretre wrote:Umm. The =I= are getting a huge boost out of Codex:GH. All three Ordos are supposedly viable and customizable.

Yes but they have 2 units. Less than DH or WH.

Nope. Let's look at what is supposedly in C: GK vs C: DH


Codex: GK Just Inq Options, not GK
HQ: 3 Units, 3 Named: Coteaz, Karamazov, Valeria, OM Inq, OH Inq, OX Inq
Elite: 6 units, Assassin x4, Henchman (incorporates Arcos, Daemonhosts, IST, Retinues and DCA, plus many new unit combos. Counting as 5.)
Troops: n/a, Henchmen, possibly or def with Coteaz.
Ded Trans: Rhino, Razorback, Inq Chim
Heavy: LR, LRC, LRR
So 12 units, 3 Ded Trans, 3 Chars
And that's not counting Counts As possibilities for Stormravens, Dreadknights, etc.


Codex: DH (Just Inq, not GK)
HQ: 1 units, 1 Char. Inq Lord, Coteaz
Elites: 4 units. OM Inq, DH, DCA, Assassin x4
Troops: 1 units. IST
Ded Trans: 3 units. Chim, Rhino, LR
Heavy: 1 unit. Orbital Strike
So 7 units, 3 Ded Trans, 1 char in the old codex.

How is that less than C: DH?

1. I don't count SCs or DTs.
2. The different branches will not have a different statline. Essentially the same unit so I grouped it under one.
3. All those henchmen you listed are not seperate units. They are one unit. Called henchmen.
4. I did forget assassins but as its in one section (Titled imperial assassin) and thus one entry.
5. LRs I wouldn't call as part of the inquisition. I'm sure there in the dex for the GKs.

So I was wrong with 2 and it is actually (What I would call) 3 units. (Obviously anyone can disagree. This is a forum. It would be boring if we all agreed with each other.)

So yeah. It is less.

I heard that SoB will be able to ally with either Blood Angels or Space Wolves, but not either.

Codex: Bella is going to be awesome.

1. I don't count SCs or DTs.
2. The different branches will not have a different statline. Essentially the same unit so I grouped it under one.
3. All those henchmen you listed are not seperate units. They are one unit. Called henchmen.
4. I did forget assassins but as its in one section (Titled imperial assassin) and thus one entry.
5. LRs I wouldn't call as part of the inquisition. I'm sure there in the dex for the GKs.

So I was wrong with 2 and it is actually (What I would call) 3 units. (Obviously anyone can disagree. This is a forum. It would be boring if we all agreed with each other.)

So yeah. It is less.

1. Okay, those were largely a wash.
2. Again a wash, although you can argue then that CH only had 0.5 HQ choices since it was the same as C:WH. Also, they have different wargear between each entry.
3. You're being stubborn here. If they don't count as separate units, then I will count Arcos, DCA, Daemonhosts and ISTs in CH as 1, since they are all covered by Henchmen in the new book.
4. I counted them as one.
5. They were fieldable as DT in CH and have no Grey Knights only restriction in C:GK. Fair game.


Even accepting the above
CH had Inq Lord, Inq, DCA/Arco/IST/Daemonhosts/ISTs, Assassins, Orbital Strike
C:GK has Inq Lords, DCA/Arco/IST/Daemonhosts/ISTs, Assassins, Land Raiders x3 types

Not to mention a whole bunch of new wargear, new henchmen and rules that weren't available before. Also, the removal of 'GK Only' rules from the book is a big bonus. This means you can take Dreadnoughts, Dreadknights or Stormravens, which means you can kitbash/use an inquisitorial fire platform, Orbital insertion vehicles or Penitent Engines as well.

I understand you don't like your codex changing, but saying that there is less in the new Codex is just provably false.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:I heard that SoB will be able to ally with either Blood Angels or Space Wolves, but not either.

Codex: Bella is going to be awesome.

Wow. 2009 called, they want their joke back.

I am a stubborn person but putting severl chioces into one dex is condensing and means less chioce surely?

Either way I feel shafted still.

At least we agree about the codex: bella remark.

VikingScott wrote:I am a stubborn person but putting severl chioces into one dex is condensing and means less chioce surely?

Either way I feel shafted still.

At least we agree about the codex: bella remark.

I think there are more choices in that one codex entry than some old school codexs (I'm looking at you Codex: Necrons). It takes up 4 pages of the books in the description section and has 10 different stat blocks with 10 different sets of rules and 24 different wargear line items. You can't say that compares directly to ISTs in the old codex. It literally has rules for Arcos, Daemonhosts, DCAs, etc, which were separate choices before. Just because they put them in one catch all entry, doesn't mean you can't field them anymore. You can in fact do more with this than before.

You want 6 DCA with 3 Arcos and 3 Storm Shield Crusaders to suck up wounds? Done.
You want 12 guys with PW/Storm Shield? Sure.
12 Space Monkeys with Rending 60" Lascannons, Rending 36" Multimeltas and Rending Hellhound Style Heavy Flamers? Go crazy.
3 Guys with Meltaguns and a Razorback? Absolutely.

For me, it is all about choice of what you can put on the table. Can you put more, different types of units and models on the table with the Inq choices in C: GK than C: DH? Darn right you can.

TBD wrote:After Grey knights I expect at least 3 better selling armies to be redone before we see any sisters.

Are there three better selling armies that NEED to be redone? I count Necrons and Tau. DA and BT are pretty much set till 6th with the FAQ, though there will be plenty of toys to come this edition I'm sure. That being said, it was stated by GW in an interview, salt machine: on, that they were currently working with the plastics. I have my fingers crossed for a release late this year, early next.

pretre wrote:

VikingScott wrote:I am a stubborn person but putting severl chioces into one dex is condensing and means less chioce surely?

Either way I feel shafted still.

At least we agree about the codex: bella remark.

I think there are more choices in that one codex entry than some old school codexs (I'm looking at you Codex: Necrons). It takes up 4 pages of the books in the description section and has 10 different stat blocks with 10 different sets of rules and 24 different wargear line items. You can't say that compares directly to ISTs in the old codex. It literally has rules for Arcos, Daemonhosts, DCAs, etc, which were separate choices before. Just because they put them in one catch all entry, doesn't mean you can't field them anymore. You can in fact do more with this than before.

You want 6 DCA with 3 Arcos and 3 Storm Shield Crusaders to suck up wounds? Done.
You want 12 guys with PW/Storm Shield? Sure.
12 Space Monkeys with Rending 60" Lascannons, Rending 36" Multimeltas and Rending Hellhound Style Heavy Flamers? Go crazy.
3 Guys with Meltaguns and a Razorback? Absolutely.

For me, it is all about choice of what you can put on the table. Can you put more, different types of units and models on the table with the Inq choices in C: GK than C: DH? Darn right you can.

I haven't seen the leaked codex but I know about the chioce of what I can field. Alright I can grudginly accept that that may count as more than one unit. I did not know that it took up 4 pages.

pretre wrote:

biccat wrote:I heard that SoB will be able to ally with either Blood Angels or Space Wolves, but not either.

Codex: Bella is going to be awesome.

Wow. 2009 called, they want their joke back.

Look, some of us around here are old farts and still think this kind of thing is funny. Don't make me get out my shaggy dog jokes.

Besides, since Fifth Edition, there have been 6 codex releases: 4 imperial, 2 xenos (and 4 of those Imperial were power armor based). Soon we're getting another Imperial (yay.) power armor codex.

There's no reason to make more imperial power armor codices. The game can afford to drop DA, BT, and SoB. How about Necrons, Tau, Eldar, Orks, and Chaos? These are armies that can't be effectively "counts as" with the current mix of blue/grey/red Space Marines.

Insert tired old debate about SM vs non-SM including sales vs diversity and blah blah blah.

Yeah, we know.

pretre wrote:Insert tired old debate about SM vs non-SM including sales vs diversity and blah blah blah.

Yeah, we know.

Then excuse me if I don't get super excited about another 3+ power-noob Imperial army book being released.

Besides, since Fifth Edition, there have been 6 codex releases: 4 imperial, 2 xenos (and 4 of those Imperial were power armor based). Soon we're getting another Imperial (yay.) power armor codex.

There's no reason to make more imperial power armor codices. The game can afford to drop DA, BT, and SoB. How about Necrons, Tau, Eldar, Orks, and Chaos? These are armies that can't be effectively "counts as" with the current mix of blue/grey/red Space Marines.

Scarey Nerd wrote:
Since when were IG power-armour based?...

Shh, he was on a roll. Best not to get into this debate. After all, SM players are power-noobs. lol

SoB are different from Space Noobs. So they shouldn't be lumped in with them. They're fine to keep.

Space Noobs? Congratulations, you're 1337, happy? Let's just forget that they are a medium to advanced player's army due to having an 8'' optimal range and getting massacred in assault.

It wouldn't surprise me if DA went away at this point. Oh look first round terminator teleport for GK and can take them as troops. Deathwing much? Same thing for the Wolves, more termi troops. Oh, and regular marines do bike lists just fine without the Ravenwing. :grr:

Scarey Nerd wrote:Since when were IG power-armour based?...

Well I started to say 7 releases with 5 Imperial (4 of which are power armor)...

Something got lost in the editing process.

The first Power-Armor based 5th edition codex wasn't terrible. SM needed an update.
The second Power-Armor based 5th edition codex was essentially "how can we make SM better?" and screwed the pooch.
The third Power-Armor based 5th edition codex asked "why aren't enough people playing SM?" and viscously sodomized the pooch.

I have little hope for the next Power-Armor based 5th edition codex, which appears to take the position of "we need more people playing SM." The pooch is crying in the shower.

I'm not 1337, my record in 5th edition is something like 0-8. Probably because I play Thousand Sons. I'm just tired of seeing the same armies across the table (grey marines, red marines, grey marines, red marines). I don't think adding boobalicious marines to the mix is going to change anything. Although it would be fun to dance with SoB at 8-12" ranges.

biccat wrote:Probably because I play Thousand Sons. I'm just tired of seeing the same armies across the table (grey marines, red marines, grey marines, red marines). I don't think adding boobalicious marines to the mix is going to change anything.

You are a Space Marine player. Your complaint is invalid.

And no, the overabundance of Space Marines is not an acceptable alternative to GW finally producing a plastic female soldiers kit (trees and hermaphrodites don't count).

I agree with Mr. Hyena. Although the SoB have many statistical similarities with SM and have often been called their female counter-parts, I'm constantly drawn by their faith powers, fluff, and overall design. Imho, the flavor of the SoB alone is enough to keep them as an army, especially since they're not an SM spin-off.

Also, I heard that the SoB are good mixed with GK. Is this true?

I agree with Mr. Hyena. Although the SoB have many statistical similarities with SM and have often been called their female counter-parts, I'm constantly drawn by their faith powers, fluff, and overall design. Imho, the flavor of the SoB alone is enough to keep them as an army, especially since they're not an SM spin-off.

Well I view sisters as the middle of the road option. Space marines are the elite force, guardsmen are the mass number option, and sisters fill the void in the middle. Kind of like Mercury cars, compared to Lincoln and Ford

Yeah, SoB are coming out. Then we can get Tau out of the way and then Eldar and then...

Da-dududun-dun-DAH!
Chaos

Anyway, yeah, you can no longer buy spuads of Battle Sisters. I don't know about you, but history shows hat when things disappear, GW replaces them with newer, cooler stuff.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:

Anyway, yeah, you can no longer buy spuads of Battle Sisters. I don't know about you, but history shows hat when things disappear, GW replaces them with newer, cooler stuff.

I like your view on that, and it came true in a great way for the Dark Eldar (my second favorite faction). Also, great analogy, Volkov. You're right, but I view the Battle Sisters as the full force of the Inquisition, my favorite part of the Imperium. Space Marines are really cool too, but I prefer Sisters I guess for the doom and gloom as well as the unique female army angle.

pretre wrote:
Not to mention a whole bunch of new wargear, new henchmen and rules that weren't available before. Also, the removal of 'GK Only' rules from the book is a big bonus. This means you can take Dreadnoughts, Dreadknights or Stormravens, which means you can kitbash/use an inquisitorial fire platform, Orbital insertion vehicles or Penitent Engines as well.

Good points. I feel much less shafted now with the revelation that I could actually make my Penitent engines BETTER by making them "counts as" Dreadnaught or Dreadknight rules instead, plus still have my arco-flagellants, storm troopers, etc. Plus I have some really cool ideas for a squad of crusaders. Now I am getting much more excited about this codex than I was before!

Muchas gracias for pointing this out and the ideas.

pretre wrote:Or that we are all masochists.

nice

Wow Two Pages and no Melissia ?

the world will truely end in 2012.


I would actually pick up the codex when they get to it, im not DYING for it to come out, but it'd be nice to stop seeing Space Marines EVERYWHERE

Ugh, the female Space Marine stuff is played out. Way different fluff, and game-wise, it's not just power armor = power armor. WS 3, T3, S3 means NO ASSAULT. EVER. That 3+ ? Your biggest false friend in the world. Hard to make saves, power armor or not, when there are ten of them.

Even Celestians, who have WS4, are no better than phenomenal tarpits that can tie up SM heroes at the cost of precious faith points. No Sisters toting lascannons or missile launchers, no Terminators, no Predators, no assault marines, etc etc etc. SoB are unlike playing any other army...the closest to mech sisters would probably be DE. Similar emphasis on running and gunning and cool rollable abilities, only they (Wyches) are awesome in HtH.

New Sister Codex will most appreciated.
But please for the love of Morks Golden Middle Finger, Update my Orks.

I would love a new SoB Codex, not that I am unhappy with the current one. I would like to see SoB get their own codex and the Inquisition to get their own, but with the leaked GK codex, that seems most unlikely. I would be very upset for Witch Hunters Inquisition to go away as I also have an extensive army of them. I suppose I could be content with a C:SoB similar to what the C:GK may be, with Inquisition WH taking a backseat.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I would love a new SoB Codex, not that I am unhappy with the current one. I would like to see SoB get their own codex and the Inquisition to get their own, but with the leaked GK codex, that seems most unlikely. I would be very upset for Witch Hunters Inquisition to go away as I also have an extensive army of them. I suppose I could be content with a C:SoB similar to what the C:GK may be, with Inquisition WH taking a backseat.

SoB with WH background noise is exactly what I'm hoping for. I want useful arco-flagellants; I actually have had some use with them lately, the problem is that daggone priest! Fix him, GW!