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Personally I'd go RAI and let them fire as a Salvo, as I dont think there are that many weapons that can fire multiple barrage markers in a single turn anyways. It gets into fridge logic territory when three separate guys can fire three barrage weaposn more accurately than one guy firing a single salvo of 3 barrage rounds.

Tomb King wrote:Last question guys for the most part you answered the way I thought you would.

I had someone try to argue that a vehicle firing out of area terrain gives cover it is 2" inside the area terrain. Even if their target is open. Am I right in saying only infantry suffer from the 2" of area terrain rule?

The rule ist that, if you are in area terrain and within 2" of the edge you do NOT give cover from the terrain you are in.

The person arguing with you is making a key error with regards to logic: they are stating that, because A -> B then B -> A. Just because you are more than 2" inside area terrain does not mean you are AUTOMATICALLY giving away cover. You must still follow the rules for firing through area terrain - you must be firing between 2 elements of the terrain

I'm an IG player and this thrid really got me thinking. I now too have a question abou the manticore. The manticore can fire directly not using the barrage rules. So if I did this I would roll and scatter 2d6-3 seperatly for each of my d3 shots in the event that I fired directly ... Correct.

CrazyCarl

Yep, thats correct. You're generally better off firing barrage, WITH los, unless of course you cant due to minimum range or having moved.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Last question guys for the most part you answered the way I thought you would.

I had someone try to argue that a vehicle firing out of area terrain gives cover it is 2" inside the area terrain. Even if their target is open. Am I right in saying only infantry suffer from the 2" of area terrain rule?

The rule ist that, if you are in area terrain and within 2" of the edge you do NOT give cover from the terrain you are in.

The person arguing with you is making a key error with regards to logic: they are stating that, because A -> B then B -> A. Just because you are more than 2" inside area terrain does not mean you are AUTOMATICALLY giving away cover. You must still follow the rules for firing through area terrain - you must be firing between 2 elements of the terrain

Your successful in confusing me

OK, will try again.

The rule states you do *not* give cover saves to an enemy unit (for ease - the enemy unit is standing completely in the "open"!) if you are standing in area terrain and are less than 2" from the edge of the area terrain.

The converse is NOT true - you cannot, logically speaking, assume that by standing more than 2" away from the edge the enemy unit will get a cover save. If you are more than 2" from the edge of area terrain you need to determine if the area terrain you are standing in gives the enemy a cover save; yo uare told that firing at enemies "through" area terrain ONLY gives the enemy a cover save if you are firing between two "elements" of the terrain.

AS an example

----------- - X - -T-----T- Y X is firing at Y while standing in woods. X is more than 2" from the edge, and is shooting between two elements of the terrain - the Trees. This gives Y a cover save ----------- - X - ----T---T Y Here X is shooting at Y, and is more than 2" from the edge of the terrain. here NO cover save is applicable, as X is not shooting between two elements of cover - the Trees - as tehy are off to the side

So hopefully you can see the difference, and why they are assuming incorrectly

Their argument is the same as this common fallacy:

A implies B: (All) Cats are mammals (this is the "if you are within 2" you DONT give a cover save case)

If you try to reverse that, in other words state "if you are not within 2" you automatically give a cover save" you get this statement:

B implies A: (all) mammals are cats. Whcih is patently false.

ok, last thing on a manticore before letting this thread die.


Some people say you can shoot it directly or indirectly. I cant find this in the codex. Does anyone have the page number for it? It just states minimum range 24 max rang 120.

It isnt in the codex, but in the rules for Barrage in the main rule book

ALL barrage weapons, unless their special rules state otherwise, can fire directly

nosferatu1001 wrote:It isnt in the codex, but in the rules for Barrage in the main rule book

ALL barrage weapons, unless their special rules state otherwise, can fire directly

alright and it is still the same range regardless of if its direct or indirect "24-120"? Sorry I am new to this little guy.

No, direct fire removes the minimum range requirement. You have the same maximum range though

No worries, everyone learns at some point!