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juraigamer wrote:Two wound termies that can count as troops with FNP and an excellent assortment of weapons? Seriously? This will be all over the tables....

Wow, I haven't seen any of the leaked stuff, is that really what people are expecting? I almost can't believe it. Yeesh.

Augustus wrote:

juraigamer wrote:Two wound termies that can count as troops with FNP and an excellent assortment of weapons? Seriously? This will be all over the tables....

Wow, I haven't seen any of the leaked stuff, is that really what people are expecting? I almost can't believe it. Yeesh.

For the low, low cost of 625 for 10 with no weapons, including either another 200 for the GKGM to get a single scoring squad, or another 275 pts for Draigo to get blanket scoring status for all units.

If Paladins are unchanged from the Scandex, with a 5+ invul and no eternal warrior, then these guys are going to be pretty rare (at least the max squad size config + Draigo super unit).

When you plonk down, literally, 1,000 points for 11 models, you need some seriously massive return on that investment.

sourclams wrote:For the low, low cost of 625 for 10 with no weapons...1,000 points for 11 models, you need some seriously massive return on that investment.

Ahh thank you for clearing that up, thats entirely different. That completely reverses my 'HUWHAT?' opinion. Thank you. (I just hadn't heard or seen any of these details yet, seems like I'm the only one.)

I already have a squad of GK Terminators and I am very excited for the relase of the new codex as an excuse to fill out the army with some new models (since I only have 1.5k of Demonhunters) and for the changes to the units I already have.

I very much like the idea of upgrading the Terminators to Paladins and gaining the second wound.

Well the discussion isn't so much 'who has GKTerms and intends to use them or buy them?', it's more, 'what will the competitive builds feature, and what do people expect to see in 'pure' GK armies?

The answer to that one is still, obviously, very much debateable. If we see few changes from the Scandex, then it seems a lot of people favor PAGK, the 'elite' version of PAGKs, Dreadknights, and both the special character with Terminator retinue HQ and the GK Librarian.

It would be stupid to say that anything looks 'weak', of course, but from my perspective the troop Terminators and elite Terminators aren't efficient enough to make up the bulk of a list's points. The big killer is the 5+ invul and no way to upgrade it without spending a lot of points. Pound for pound, it really seems that TAGKs lose out to TH/SS Assterms in CC and AP2 shooting at range. That's fine if they come with a low point cost, but they don't so I'd hesitate to say that they can really be the mainstay of a competitive list.

Excellent info thanks, Im very curious to see what this will mean also. Appreciate the summations.

sourclams wrote:I see 5 man GKT squads having merit as your backfield scoring unit, but not as a premiere assault unit simply because they lack sufficient stats (2+ save does not offset a 5+ invul and base 4s).

S5, I5, 3 Attacks, and 4+ invuln is looking like the case now.

Considering flying PAGK are Fast Attack, it's the Troop Strike Teams I don't see getting used now.

I think what is important here is that we know that I can make a PH Thousand Sons list out of this, finally. And even have some supporting Spireguard.

ColdSadHungry wrote:Yeah, and they shredded our midfield, too. But to be honest, our midfield has been lacking for a number of years and is only getting worse. Liverpool deserved the win, can't argue otherwise. Sadly.

Well dont worry too much, obviously your still in 1st place and the teams trying to catch you arent doing it with much effort. If its any consolation, over here in the States, ESPN's Sportscenter still has Rooney's bicycle goal as the best play of the month...we are not much for soccer here, but I doubt that play will be trumped by anything!

DarknessEternal wrote:

sourclams wrote:I see 5 man GKT squads having merit as your backfield scoring unit, but not as a premiere assault unit simply because they lack sufficient stats (2+ save does not offset a 5+ invul and base 4s).

S5, I5, 3 Attacks, and 4+ invuln is looking like the case now.

That's basically a complete 180 from the scandex, which while very possible, still seems unlikely. Can anyone confirm?

If that is indeed the GKT statline, then I'm taking nothing else at 40 ppm.

Well, looking at the leaked prices the new GK will cost, screw tactics - for £20 you can get 5 PAGK. For £27, you can get 5 TAGK. Looks like I'll just go for as many terminators/paladins as I can get, all pimped out for a tiny but ridiculously overpowered elite army. Simply because it will be cheaper to do.

It's sad that I will have to do this but it is what I will have to do.

Element206 wrote:...we are not much for soccer here...

OK If we are going to go OT lets put this into perspective:

FOOTBALL HITS




FUTBOL hits




Also,

I don't think terminators sound viable at that massive point cost, even with those abilities. Are they going to have the veil of youcantshootus still or what? (Even that wont help if 11 men are 1K points)

For clarity, the 1000 point squad is a 275 point special character with the 2 wound Terminators that he makes 'troops'. Their base stat line from the leaked material was WS5 and then bog standard Terminator stats with optional special ccw and storm bolter at 55 ppm.

If what Darkness Eternal said is true, then you can get 'standard' troop GKTs for 40 ppm with Str and I 5, A3 and a 4+ invul. That's a pretty wide deviation from what was in the leaked material, and substantially better than 'Vanilla Shooty Terminator plus Weapon Upgrade and frag nades'.

sourclams wrote:
If what Darkness Eternal said is true, then you can get 'standard' troop GKTs for 40 ppm with Str and I 5, A3 and a 4+ invul.

That's after their upgrades and powers.

Hammerhand, Halberd, and Standard.

Looking at the confirmation on BoLS, I'd rather have the Sword over the Halberd. +2 init is nice sometimes, but a 4++ is necessary versus much shooting and many cc units. I can also pad my init with a Libby (which I don't really anticipate not taking) so I think an always-4++ has more utility.

Point costs are still largely unknown, of course, but if I can get 10 Terms with 4++ and 3A base, plus 2 psycannons and psybolt ammo for 500 ish points, I think that's a worthwhile squad.

Well, the pre order is up now so hopefully we'll see points costs etc as people get their hands on the black box copies.

Bromsy wrote:I think what is important here is that we know that I can make a PH Thousand Sons list out of this, finally. And even have some supporting Spireguard.

And that's what counts really.

Hell, maybe GW doesn't need to release Chaos Legion books, because with the magic of "Counts As", there are enough special rules around to make just about every legion!

Blood Angels makes World Eaters pretty easily, Grey Knights for Thousand Sons, and actually, the Space Wolf codex, with Grey Hunters being so flexible, pretty much can represent any pre-heresy or heresy-era Legion config as long as you leave out things like Razorbacks, Thunder Wolves and Assault Cannons.

I'm planning a Pre-heresy/Heresy era Emperor's Children force with Ancient Rylanor as "Counts As" Bjorn! Take that!

Make it happen Bromsy!