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@Hytep

Play what appeals to you most. A lot of the advice you get on the net is very subjective. People can really only speak form their own personal experience and extrapolate out information from tournament results. In the end, so much depends on who you play, what kinds of missions, and the terrain. Those are all variables that you can't replicate on the net.

So use all of this great advice as a starting point but build the army you want to play. I prefer mechanize lists as in my local area, foot lists get shredded. All of the DoA players are switching to at least partial mech because the only assault armies they face are Daemons and Bugs, which will beat the crap out of MEQs as they are just flat out better in assault, even when charged.

If you play mostly other MEQ armies or Mech armies without the ability to wipe out squads of MEQs in a go, DoA will be very powerful.

I think i will definitely magnetize the backpacks/jump packs. Ill start with a doa list and gradually build up some razorbacks.

I just really really want to use meph. I have a friend who fields abandon AND typhus and i would love to wreck them with meph. Problem comes from trying to get meph in a spot where he fits in a doa army. Maybe loaded in a SR... dunno.

Although I'm a BA player I don't have enough experience actually playing competitively to comment on the list make up with any authority.

However, magnetizing is an obsession. I would point out that Assault Squads do come with both Jump Packs and regular back packs.

Needless to say, I do some kits for magging Assault Marines. Note that you don't need to do arm swaps on every model - the sergeants and special weapons guys are your main priorities.

It's probably worth ordering a pack of the metal meltas (listed in the bitz section of GW site) and pinching a few suitable arms from Tactical Marines if needed.

@Hytep
Meph is an amazing unit, but he would probably lose to Abby. Abby has eternal warrior, a 4++ and can dump a lot of attacks on Meph.

You shoot Abby to death, if at all possible.

I'm starting to get frustrated at the lack any clear cut "great list". I want to have the list in hand and ready when I go to buy it so I dont buy one list only to find that I would rather have this other list and have to spend more.

Like I did with orks.

It seems DoA will be the cheaper route and can lead to razorback if I magnetize the hell out of my assault squads.

For DoA I have given up on Meph, the poor guy will have to sit this one out. I keep feeling like the DoA lists are too small, not enough bodies.... but then again, I come from Orks, so this might just be me!

I read a lot of lists using Sanguinor and Dante together for a great combo.

A question: Can honour guard take SS AND TH or are they limited to one thing on that list?

Hytep wrote:I'm starting to get frustrated at the lack any clear cut "great list".

But that's really the point, isn't it. There is no "one true list". You take a little advice here and there and that gives you a starting point to work from, and modify according to experience, your opposition and personal preference.

Otherwise, we might as well play chess.

BloodQuest wrote:

Hytep wrote:I'm starting to get frustrated at the lack any clear cut "great list".

But that's really the point, isn't it. There is no "one true list". You take a little advice here and there and that gives you a starting point to work from, and modify according to experience, your opposition and personal preference.

Otherwise, we might as well play chess.

I like that, the problem is coming from not having a real clear cut idea on my own personal preference, having only played ork before, and not wanting to buy a full loadout only to find my preference lies with another style.

I'm going with DoA either way atm, seems to be cheaper.

Anyone have an answer for my SS/TH question with honour guard?

Matthew Ward wrote:Any Honour Gaurd can replace his boltgun, chainsword and/or bolt pistol with:

(other items)
-a storm shield +20 points per model
-a thunder hammer +30 pts per model

So yes, any model can have both at +50 points!

TH/SS is a great combo but I prefer to use it for all my sergeants in my DoA list. I always run the Sanguinor so one of them always gets the blessing. In my opinion the Sanguinor is hands down the best choice for an HQ in a DoA army. I have also found that a Stormraven is a great choice for DoA armies - it provides some much needed long range AT plus it can transport a squad of jump infantry plus a Furioso. If you want to run Death Company they do very well embarked in a Stormraven with a Death Company dreadnaught onboard as well. The triple combination is nasty.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:TH/SS is a great combo but I prefer to use it for all my sergeants in my DoA list. I always run the Sanguinor so one of them always gets the blessing. In my opinion the Sanguinor is hands down the best choice for an HQ in a DoA army. I have also found that a Stormraven is a great choice for DoA armies - it provides some much needed long range AT plus it can transport a squad of jump infantry plus a Furioso. If you want to run Death Company they do very well embarked in a Stormraven with a Death Company dreadnaught onboard as well. The triple combination is nasty.

I have been back and forth on putting in a raven in the list. It sounds like it would make for some excellent support fire, plus its cargo is nasty. Death company looks to be amazing as long as you can get it in there and lock it in combat with something you want dead. I'm still unsure on a death company dread... the rage would make things difficult. Wouldn't it be better to get a furioso dread and give it the blood talons?

You can kit a DC dread with Blood Talons. The DC dread has fleet plus furious charge. If the Stormraven moves up to 12" you can disembark the DC dread another 2", fleet up to 6" then charge another 6"... Thats a potential of 26" charge range.

Hytep wrote:

BloodQuest wrote:

Hytep wrote:I'm starting to get frustrated at the lack any clear cut "great list".

But that's really the point, isn't it. There is no "one true list". You take a little advice here and there and that gives you a starting point to work from, and modify according to experience, your opposition and personal preference.

Otherwise, we might as well play chess.

I like that, the problem is coming from not having a real clear cut idea on my own personal preference, having only played ork before, and not wanting to buy a full loadout only to find my preference lies with another style.

I'm going with DoA either way atm, seems to be cheaper.

Anyone have an answer for my SS/TH question with honour guard?

Here a picture of how you can make your DoA army cheap, and you can use them as assualt marines without jumppack as well.

Hytep wrote:I'm starting to get frustrated at the lack any clear cut "great list". I want to have the list in hand and ready when I go to buy it so I dont buy one list only to find that I would rather have this other list and have to spend more.

Like I did with orks.

It seems DoA will be the cheaper route and can lead to razorback if I magnetize the hell out of my assault squads.

For DoA I have given up on Meph, the poor guy will have to sit this one out. I keep feeling like the DoA lists are too small, not enough bodies.... but then again, I come from Orks, so this might just be me!

I read a lot of lists using Sanguinor and Dante together for a great combo.

A question: Can honour guard take SS AND TH or are they limited to one thing on that list?

I know the feeling, but that is the way it is in this game. Like Bloodquest said, there is no one list to rule them all. There just isn't.

I can tell you this right off the bat though, if you regularly play dedicated assault armies, you will have a really rough go of it with DoA at first. It takes a lot of tricks in multi-charging and model positioning to win with them. A friend of mine just got into DoA and played in a 1500 tournament with us against tooled up tournament lists and got tabled every game. That is not to say that that will happen to you, but it is not an army that lends itself well to a beginner.

Whereas with Orks you can just throw bodies at a problem and be OK, with DoA you don't have the numbers for that. Every assault has to be well planned and decisive.

If you mostly play MEQs you'll be OK. But the first time you charge into Genesteelers or Daemons and get wiped, you are going to be really frustrated.

I am not trying to dissuade you from playing the list, it is cool and fun, but you really have to know the game well to win with it. Otherwise you are going to be having some nasty surprises when your MEQ stat line units are getting eaten alive by better assault units, even when you charge.

There is a learning curve but it's manageable - once you get the hang of it you'll do just fine.

I disagree that the Sanguinor is the best HQ choice for a DoA army. I really think you need at least 1 Librarian, if not 2. One of the biggest problems with the concept is that you spend the turn you come in just sitting there, bunched up to boot. The Sanguinor might be a good choice as a second HQ in larger point games, since he will draw a lot of fire and he can actually take it, but take a librarian too.

I would like to reiterate my concern with using a Stormraven in a DoA list as well. I haven't use one yet, but the general take on dakka is that they are really vulnerable, and you don't want armor in a DoA list. As money seems to be a concern for you, I would really advocate getting infantry models first. It is quite possible you will end up running lists with no vehicles. It is inconceivable that you will run lists without infantry. Stick with your plan, and get the armor later.

No armour in a DoA list please.
In this way all high strength weapons like lascannons are wasted.
The enemy buys a lot of points for those weapons, but at the end can only take down a single Marine who eventually gets a cover save.

wuestenfux wrote:No armour in a DoA list please.
In this way all high strength weapons like lascannons are wasted.
The enemy buys a lot of points for those weapons, but at the end can only take down a single Marine who eventually gets a cover save.

This logic is whacky. Lascannons and such are good at negating FNP. Things like Vendettas can rip through DoA units really well if they focus their fire every turn. By taking infantry that is resilient to normal volume fire you aren't making their AT stuff useless. You're marginalizing it a bit, but it becomes really good against your infantry.

I've played A LOT of games with DoA running Land Speeders, Baal Preds and normal Preds, and they're good. They work well because they're all good on their own coming in from reserves (unlike Devastators) so you don't lose out on anything by reserving your army and you don't give your opponent free points (going second and deploying your Devs is going to result in some big chunks getting taken out of the Dev units).

The reason I don't play them (or Devastators for that matter) anymore has nothing to do with making AT weapons useless or even really deployment constraints (though it is relevant with the Devs) so much as that they divide the mindset of the army and basically reduce my pressure on the drop without bringing a massive return for the first turn or two of shooting.

MrEconomics wrote:I disagree that the Sanguinor is the best HQ choice for a DoA army. I really think you need at least 1 Librarian, if not 2. One of the biggest problems with the concept is that you spend the turn you come in just sitting there, bunched up to boot. The Sanguinor might be a good choice as a second HQ in larger point games, since he will draw a lot of fire and he can actually take it, but take a librarian too.

I would like to reiterate my concern with using a Stormraven in a DoA list as well. I haven't use one yet, but the general take on dakka is that they are really vulnerable, and you don't want armor in a DoA list. As money seems to be a concern for you, I would really advocate getting infantry models first. It is quite possible you will end up running lists with no vehicles. It is inconceivable that you will run lists without infantry. Stick with your plan, and get the armor later.

The Libby is the worst choice of HQ for a DoA army... Really weak in close combat which is where you need to be. If you feel the need to cast Shield then DoA is not for you.

wuestenfux wrote:No armour in a DoA list please.
In this way all high strength weapons like lascannons are wasted.
The enemy buys a lot of points for those weapons, but at the end can only take down a single Marine who eventually gets a cover save.

Blud und Ehre !

I've played A LOT of games with DoA running Land Speeders, Baal Preds and normal Preds, and they're good. They work well because they're all good on their own coming in from reserves (unlike Devastators) so you don't lose out on anything by reserving your army and you don't give your opponent free points (going second and deploying your Devs is going to result in some big chunks getting taken out of the Dev units).

Now the ''heavy weapon teams'' have something to shoot at.
My point is that the enemy has to invest a lot of points to include a decent number of heavy weapons,
but in a DoA army, full of Marines, there are no real targets for them.

Black Fiend wrote:
Blud und Ehre !

I think you mean Blut und Ehre.

nyenyec wrote:

Black Fiend wrote:
Blud und Ehre !

I think you mean Blut und Ehre.

Right!

Caffran9 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:No armour in a DoA list please.
In this way all high strength weapons like lascannons are wasted.
The enemy buys a lot of points for those weapons, but at the end can only take down a single Marine who eventually gets a cover save.

This logic is whacky. Lascannons and such are good at negating FNP. Things like Vendettas can rip through DoA units really well if they focus their fire every turn. By taking infantry that is resilient to normal volume fire you aren't making their AT stuff useless. You're marginalizing it a bit, but it becomes really good against your infantry.

I've played A LOT of games with DoA running Land Speeders, Baal Preds and normal Preds, and they're good. They work well because they're all good on their own coming in from reserves (unlike Devastators) so you don't lose out on anything by reserving your army and you don't give your opponent free points (going second and deploying your Devs is going to result in some big chunks getting taken out of the Dev units).

The reason I don't play them (or Devastators for that matter) anymore has nothing to do with making AT weapons useless or even really deployment constraints (though it is relevant with the Devs) so much as that they divide the mindset of the army and basically reduce my pressure on the drop without bringing a massive return for the first turn or two of shooting.

Wustenflux's logic is not wacky at all. It is a generally accepted premise that an all infantry army largely negates the effectiveness of anti-tank weapons. You are right that in the specific case of DoA which relies heavily on FnP, this is not as true. However, shooting a lascannon at a 18pt assault marines that will likely have a 4+ loses a lot of potential effectiveness than firing at a 200+pt Stormraven which can be destroyed in a single shot.

If you only have a single tank, it will invariably draw the majority of anti-tank fire and most likely be destroyed quickly.

Remember, 2 tanks are 4 times better than 1 tank. Twice the firepower and twice the durability. The more tanks you take the more effective each tank becomes.

Mech is a wet dream for DoA. The ability to deep strike reliably and quickly over the course of two turns while denying your opponent the ability to shoot back those same two turns is very powerful versus mech. DoA should be classed as mechbane.

Remember, 2 tanks are 4 times better than 1 tank. Twice the firepower and twice the durability. The more tanks you take the more effective each tank becomes.

Truth spoken. Sounds like the Lanchester square law.