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Black Fiend wrote:I have to say Nids in 5ed is the worst codex I've ever read. I would never take them to a serious tourney.

I sadly agree. I loved them - then realized I could never, NEVER win a game with them even before the new DE codex came out. And no, winning isn't everything, but it's something. I don't like getting stomped over and over again regardless of how much I like an army.

No joke, Nids have been screwed over by every codex released since them.

BA- Fast as hell, FNP troops with lots of attacks and guns too
DE- Splinter cannons, FNP troops that have a 4+ invul in CC
GK- All kinds of insta-death floating around, mass flamers, mass blasts, S8 autocannons

Did I miss anything? Tyranids are horrible, IMO. Hive Tyrants, zoanthropes,hive guard and trygons are the only thing they have going for them.

Samus_aran115 wrote:No joke, Nids have been screwed over by every codex released since them.

BA- Fast as hell, FNP troops with lots of attacks and guns too
DE- Splinter cannons, FNP troops that have a 4+ invul in CC
GK- All kinds of insta-death floating around, mass flamers, mass blasts, S8 autocannons

Did I miss anything? Tyranids are horrible, IMO. Hive Tyrants, zoanthropes,hive guard and trygons are the only thing they have going for them.

What about hive guard? 2 S8 shots for 50 pts on a T6 model is nothing to sneeze at

Nurglitch wrote:Lycaeus Wrex:

Hush now, we are fortunate to witness such scintillating insight. If only we'd known this sooner, we could have given up sooner!

Hushes up.

L. Wrex

People love to overreact and the internet doesn't understand Tyranids.

OMG I have to use synergy, different units, and can't just mindlessly spam?!??! They must be bad!

Nids have been hit hard by some of the newer codices. They are still a solid army. They are hurt by poisoned weapons, removed from play nonsense, and super speedy lists. They are still solid. Sadly, they have many poor units in the codex. Hive Guard are one unit that players are actually forced to spam. Tyrannofexes, Tervigons, Gargoyles, Termiguants, Trygons, Primes, the Doom, Genestealers, and even the Tyrant are still good units.

I honestly think that if JoTWW didn't exist or was just not in an army that is heavily used because they are marines there would be no problem. It also stings that the Cheese Wolves can take four of the buggers...

Valkyrie wrote:Yeah I often find a S9 T6 Monstrous Creature useless. And you're right, I mean you only have a hyper-Zoanthrope that causes many wounds on enemy units within 6" every player turn, 'Nids really have it hard don't they?

Edit: we have exclamation and question marks, why no sarcam mark?

Well... hmmm... Yea, this is late. Though, as a nidz player, who actually considers them a strong army, I do have a low tolerance for dumb statements.

S9 MC!!! Amamzing! AND IT IS T6!!! How can anyone possibly beat it??? It is super powerful!

Yea. It doesn't have fleet, and therefore has a hard time getting the charge.

S9 is overkill on everything but a landraider. And the landraider basically has to LET you catch it. Past that... S6 is pretty much all you need.

Now, just curious, have you ever actually tried fielding one of these? You know... getting blown off the table by anything that hits you that is S8 AP3.

The "hyper-zoanthrope" kind of shows that you are not a nidz player, and therefore it makes sense why you haven't actually looked inside the tyranid FAQ to see that anything inside a vehicle can not be effected by that wound draining effect, cover-saves can be taken from the wound draining, and the Doom of Malant'ai can be IK'd by anything S8+... so it doesn't matter how many wounds it has.

Someone has probably already said this... but I just had to say it.

Remember the GW mantra. If it was uber, it will be nerfed. If you are a Xeno or chaos, you are out of luck. If you are a sphess mahreens or of the Imperium, you get all of the goodies, -And- if the codex is written by Mat Ward, then yeeeeh, ya get deep striking land raiders that go pew pew pew!

Just kidding guys but the Nids, IMHO can be affective against the GK Army. I've been with a few pros with a nid army which I play against from time to time so I won't get rusty on my game play. When the GK codex comes out, there are going to be those who will dissect this codex and develop a tactic against it.

Oh one more thing to throw into the fire. The codex's are not really created to be balanced anymore, they are created to sell the codex in mass and to sell the "new" and "expensive" special models that you need to make your army, "special".

With the nids and other armies, you have to think about your tactics when you go against the GK army list and adapt to the situation.

JGrand wrote:People love to overreact and the internet doesn't understand Tyranids.

OMG I have to use synergy, different units, and can't just mindlessly spam?!??! They must be bad!

Nids have been hit hard by some of the newer codices. They are still a solid army. They are hurt by poisoned weapons, removed from play nonsense, and super speedy lists. They are still solid. Sadly, they have many poor units in the codex. Hive Guard are one unit that players are actually forced to spam. Tyrannofexes, Tervigons, Gargoyles, Termiguants, Trygons, Primes, the Doom, Genestealers, and even the Tyrant are still good units.

I honestly think that if JoTWW didn't exist or was just not in an army that is heavily used because they are marines there would be no problem. It also stings that the Cheese Wolves can take four of the buggers...

Bold statement: Thank you for being sarcastic. You are my new favorite person ;D

Though... JoTWW i have never found to be a problem. I guess there are a few times you roll 6's... but that's only if the guy is still aliove to use it enough times to become scary :-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheRedArmy wrote:

Black Fiend wrote:I have to say Nids in 5ed is the worst codex I've ever read. I would never take them to a serious tourney.

I sadly agree. I loved them - then realized I could never, NEVER win a game with them even before the new DE codex came out. And no, winning isn't everything, but it's something. I don't like getting stomped over and over again regardless of how much I like an army.

Yes. Blame the codex and not your lack of skill... It couldn't be you.

Black Fiend wrote:I have to say Nids in 5ed is the worst codex I've ever read. I would never take them to a serious tourney.

Allow me to introduce you to the others that are vastly worse; Space Marines, Eldar, Tau Empire, Necrons, Witchunters, and Dark Angels. And the gap is quite large for everyone except Space Marines.

Samus_aran115 wrote:No joke, Nids have been screwed over by every codex released since them.

BA- Fast as @#!*% , FNP troops with lots of attacks and guns too
DE- Splinter cannons, FNP troops that have a 4+ invul in CC
GK- All kinds of insta-death floating around, mass flamers, mass blasts, S8 autocannons

Did I miss anything? Tyranids are horrible, IMO. Hive Tyrants, zoanthropes,hive guard and trygons are the only thing they have going for them.

You know how I know that you don't know what you are talking about? You listed the Hive tyrant and didn't list the Tervigan.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Black Fiend wrote:I have to say Nids in 5ed is the worst codex I've ever read. I would never take them to a serious tourney.

Because it doesn't have anything with an armor value? *sigh*

I don't understand why there are so many people who play this game who say that it is the codex's fault that they can't win, and then switch to something where you copy paste a list from the internet, buy the models, go to a tourney, and rate in the top...

You guys who are bashing the codex may want to actually read tournament results before turning down the codex as the worst written.

I still see a majority of Tyranid battle reports are Tyranid victories. I still hear of tourneys wheer a Nid list gets 1st or 2nd. I have never heard of a serious tourney having an Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, or Necron victory. Though Dark Eldar could certainly do it.

Selling your army for a new one is about the worst advice I have ever heard. I would be seriously bored playing marines, though I might win more after getting a hang of the army.

The Doom of Malan'tai is good, not broken. Big difference. Short range, cover saves allowed, insta-killed by melta. He's manageable.

To be honest, listing all the Codex's that haven't received an update yet is pretty pointless. No duh they're not up to par yet, they haven't been revamped since almost 2nd/3rd edition. So please, bring a more convincing argument to the table then this lameness.

And DE are pretty strong, I just think they haven't seen alot of Tournament time yet as they're still quite new.

Another point I'd like to put out, is the GK Codex isn't even out yet, so lets save the fear mongering for when it's here and more people can see what the cost/upgrade ratio really is.

As for Tyranids, they've been streamlined considerably. And anyone who disagrees has never really looked at the 4th Ed. Codex and compared it to the 5th Ed.

Taking away EW from units within Synapse range was a big blow to the Nids as a whole. Made them considerably weaker across the board. I'm not saying it made them unplayable, just alot more fragile which in turn makes them harder to play. As for "synergy" within the Nid codex, it was attempted and for some units it does work, for others it flops on the floor like a dead fish.

The main issue, as it is with almost every codex out, is there are awesome/good units that get played every game, then there are mediocre units that get played to fill the gaps and then you have absolutely worthless units, worthless for different reasons: abilities just aren't up to par, cost is equal to or more then a mediocre unit, the unit is more of a gimmick then actually tactically sound, or a combination of the above three.

The issue with Tyranids, is they have a good number of the mediocre/worthless compared with other codexs being able to field more awesome/good units.

It's not really a flaw, but Nidzilla did get hurt in 5th Ed. compared to the 4th Ed. Codex where it was the strong build for Tournaments. Now you need more reliable and sustainable troops to win more games something Nids lack unless taking them in great number which lends its play style more towards the swarm/fluff style of play which isn't everyone's cup of tea.

I'll still continue to play my Nids, they may never be Tier 1 and that's probably because I don't play them solely to learn every nook & cranny and I feel there are somethings lacking in the codex that contribute to this end as well. I'll just have to play my Space Wolves when I want to go all for winning.

The tyranids 5th edition codex is better in the 5th edition envirnment than the 4th edition would be in 5th.

Tyranids are extremely balanced. Made under the assumption that mech spam doesn't exist. You can thank cruddace for that, who ironically, created the imperial guard codex as well.

My feeling on the new grey knights? Either they play the way they are meant to and nidz get better. Grey knights vs nidz is such an easy victory it isn't even funny.

Or they have to mech spam to keep up, and die because their basic guys cost so much so they can't put as many vehicles on the table.

Grey knights hasn't hurt tyranids at all.

DE is new, so it is hard to say about them. Though DE vs nidz... again pretty easy match up. Ohhhh your wounding my toughness 3 gants on 4's! Scary...

Bloodangels is a funny match up for tyranids. Meals on weels.

honestly, nids are bad if you are still in the illusion that MC's can eat up units by themselves against dedicated cc units

I use them as countercharge or extra pile-in units to finish them off after the first turn, and as threat magnifiers.
the real workhorse of the tyranid codex is the genestealer and the gargoyle.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Black Fiend wrote:I have to say Nids in 5ed is the worst codex I've ever read. I would never take them to a serious tourney.

Allow me to introduce you to the others that are vastly worse; Space Marines, Eldar, Tau Empire, Necrons, Witchunters, and Dark Angels. And the gap is quite large for everyone except Space Marines.

Why is Dark Angels on the list but not Black Templars?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Why is Dark Angels on the list but not Black Templars?

because black templar are very powerful with awesome cc units, cheap mixed squads, 2 cyclone launcher squads of 5 terminators, land raiders immune to lance, ect. ect.

Grundz wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Why is Dark Angels on the list but not Black Templars?

because black templar are very powerful with awesome cc units, cheap mixed squads, 2 cyclone launcher squads of 5 terminators, land raiders immune to lance, ect. ect.

And Dark Angels aren't powerful with cyclone FNP TH/SS troop terminators? Not saying that BT belongs on the list, but either they both go there or none of them go IMO...

I was pretty sure angels only got FNP on their command squads.

Dok wrote:

ph34r wrote:Have you actually read the Tyranid book? Just curious. You sound like you are going off the hype that existed about a month before C:Nids came out, and ceased to exist as soon as the actual book was seen.

Quoted for the irony in this thread.

Grundz wrote:I was pretty sure angels only got FNP on their command squads.

That's possible, I wouldn't know as it's only something I've heard and I don't play DA. Still, TH/SS cyclones as troops aren't bad at all either.

Adam LongWalker wrote:Remember the GW mantra. If it was uber, it will be nerfed. If you are a Xeno or chaos, you are out of luck. If you are a sphess mahreens or of the Imperium, you get all of the goodies, -And- if the codex is written by Mat Ward, then yeeeeh, ya get deep striking land raiders that go pew pew pew!

Just kidding guys but the Nids, IMHO can be affective against the GK Army. I've been with a few pros with a nid army which I play against from time to time so I won't get rusty on my game play. When the GK codex comes out, there are going to be those who will dissect this codex and develop a tactic against it.

Oh one more thing to throw into the fire. The codex's are not really created to be balanced anymore, they are created to sell the codex in mass and to sell the "new" and "expensive" special models that you need to make your army, "special".

With the nids and other armies, you have to think about your tactics when you go against the GK army list and adapt to the situation.

I've been working under the theory that all the codexes are (or were) overpowered at the time of their release at the very least. Ideally, if everyone is overpowered then it basically forces you to rely on skill - smart deployment, minimizing serious risks, etc.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Grundz wrote:I was pretty sure angels only got FNP on their command squads.

That's possible, I wouldn't know as it's only something I've heard and I don't play DA. Still, TH/SS cyclones as troops aren't bad at all either.

They get one Apothecary per army. And Deathwing troops (which cost more than regular terminators) are only mediocre in reality. The entire rest of the codex is nonsense in today's game.

Black Templars were already ok before the Errata, now they're good.

Bold statement: Thank you for being sarcastic. You are my new favorite person ;D

Though... JoTWW i have never found to be a problem. I guess there are a few times you roll 6's... but that's only if the guy is still aliove to use it enough times to become scary :-)

I guess it matters mainly for Tervigons and Hive Guard. From what I have seen they are pretty large staples of competitive Nids. But, you are correct, Hive Tyrants and the like aren't too worried.

Yes. Blame the codex and not your lack of skill... It couldn't be you.

Heh, don't you just love people claiming that Nid's can't win a game? Pretty funny. And I definitely agree. Alot of Nid problems are player skill problems. They are a tough to use army.

I see most nib players falling into one of two list building traps. The Wargear bloated mega units trap, and the imbalanced force that overloads one part of the game too much.

Nids are hard to balance, their units like to be both hordes and elite/MCs. Making the units work well together is even harder. People who are good at it, do quite well, and smack around quite a few less skilled players wielding the "5ed power codex's"