Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well that template initiative power is just another way to kill nidzilla or destroy tervigons with ease. as if the carnifex was not useless enough already. now tervigons can easilly be taken down. and with their ability to auto pass tests to use their powers shadows in the warp means less and wont mean anything against the tanks. wow nids cant get a break huh. first space pups, then DE now grey knights aw well all is said and done.

Yeah I often find a S9 T6 Monstrous Creature useless. And you're right, I mean you only have a hyper-Zoanthrope that causes many wounds on enemy units within 6" every player turn, 'Nids really have it hard don't they?

Edit: we have exclamation and question marks, why no sarcam mark?

I manage to make due against my opponents but Ive found not to rely on carnifex's. Its shifted to the swarm is a bit stronger and the FAQ helped nerf the shadow in the warp and doom of malianti quite a bit.

Grey Knights have 99 problems but Tyranids ain't one of them, sure nuff.

im just looking at the grey knights issues ive heard they can mess up depe striking havent seen it yet but does this mean the can single handed defeat the chaos deamons and decent of angels lists? The most immediate thing i see and heard is they cant spam thunder hammer storm shield termies.

It just ain't right.

What is not right is the MC dreadknight that curb stomps a carnifex in every way. At least 90 gargoyles and outflanking stealers should hopefully have a few words with these stupid grey knights.

It isn't, and Purifiers can effectively down half of a horde unit (approx. 13 of them) with a single pychic power... Which goes before assault moves. And also with I6 weapons... They will strike simultaneously if you upgrade to Adrenal glands, and will always strike first with Power Weapons if they are in cover...

Valkyrie wrote:Yeah I often find a S9 T6 Monstrous Creature useless. And you're right, I mean you only have a hyper-Zoanthrope that causes many wounds on enemy units within 6" every player turn, 'Nids really have it hard don't they?

Have you actually read the Tyranid book? Just curious. You sound like you are going off the hype that existed about a month before C:Nids came out, and ceased to exist as soon as the actual book was seen.

ph34r wrote:Have you actually read the Tyranid book? Just curious. You sound like you are going off the hype that existed about a month before C:Nids came out, and ceased to exist as soon as the actual book was seen.

Quoted for the irony in this thread.

Wait so you mean to tell me grey knights can cull the heard of nids to 50% before assaults are started then beat most of the units or attack at the same time with their power weapons whiping out the force entierly. Sooooo how would a nid player expect to get anything done against them if shadow in the warp does nothing.
It seams their weakness is meching up which nids can not do.

How about we actually play a few games against the Grey Knights before complaining that Tyranids will never prevail against them.

think these guys will be banned from tourney play like Akuma and metaknight were in their respective games lol
i kid i kid it will be a challange though.

A hyper thrope?
You mean the one that takes up an elite slot, has no EW and is T4 and also wounds its self when using that blast?

Or the fact that fex's are nearly double points now with no upgrades?
And the ones they can take arent as good as they were?





Usually its a case of new army comes out, 1 or 2 others suffer.
This time though it seems they are going to make a pretty big impact on how and what is taken.
However, there is allways time.
Nothing plays out 100% as it does on paper, so we are going to have to wait until we can see them being used more often.
Should also then give us some insight on what works against them.



However, i play daemons mainly, so i got more nerfed than nids since i now get constant DS problems with every unit i bring in, and its not optional for me.
Drop close and suffer, drop far away and get blasted apart.

Wont be changing armies though, put too much time and effort into them thus far, so will simply change as and when needed.

Some of the "sky is falling" talk is coming from war gear options that probably won't be taken except by players who tailor lists, due to cost. You can't have all the toys and still have an effective army. For instance the halberds cost 5 pts per model on basic troops, which already cost 20 per, and will probably buy the enhanced bolter ammo (for S5 stormbolters)... and their transports cost 5 pts more than other dexes. These little nickle and dime taxes will mean most GK players will be picky on what options they take (at least when building an all comers list, GKs are probably going to be kings of list tailoring for some).

I've played against various Tyranid tournament builds (max T6 wound spam, 80 stealer infiltrate/outflank, tervigon spam, t-fex spam, swarmy lists, balanced lists, etc) pretty much dozens of times now with my BA, SW and IG so I have some experience against them. As we know, Tyranids are pretty awful in comparison to the other 5th ed books. Last saturday I tabled a Tyranid army on turn 4 which is already pretty fast. I used mech IG and didn't get first turn. Normally it happens on turn 6 or 5 the earliest.

The fact that the GK beat Nids isn't a surprise of any kind but the way they do it is a slap in the face. Nids should be immune to instant death (and Jaws) under Synapse range, but they're not, and GW keeps on adding stuff into the game that destroys them like they aren't even there. We used to see Warriors and Raveners a lot more in the previous Nid codex. Sure they weren't the optimal units even then, but now they're just awful. We never see them. Naturally we never see Carnifexes etc either but that's a different story. Even Hive Tyrants have pretty much disappeared. The Winged Hive Tyrant with implant attacks used to be one of the biggest and baddest boys around in the past. Now it's a joke.

The balance in the Tyranid codex is so bad, that you can do the following and the Nids still aren't top tier:

Reduce Hive Tyrant base cost by 50. Reduce Carnifex base cost by 50. Reduce Mawloc base cost by 60. Reduce Harpy base cost by 30. Reduce Trygon base cost by 30. Reduce T-fex base cost by 60. Make Warriors and Raveners immune to instant death under synapse range. Give Shadow in the Warp extra 6" in range. Give Catalyst extra 6" in range. Make Rupture Cannon twin-linked. Make Venom Cannon a normal weapon.

Basically at the 2K pts limit the Tyranids are currently handicapped by about 300-500 points. SW can probably beat them more often than not with a 1500p army. I don't think many people often realise exactly how bad the balance is. Points costs aren't necessarily off by 3 or 5 points only. They can actually be off 50 points or more per single unit and it's sad.

Last year the ETC organisers actually gave some bad armies extra points to use in order to make up for the fact that everything they have is overpriced. Orcs and Goblins were allowed nearly 3000 points armies while Daemons had to play with 2000. Daemons still beat the living s**t out of them. That's how cool GW's points costs are.

Now I anticipate someone to entertain us with the standard 'Nids are fine l2p' comment when it's simply untrue and it's not just Nids either.

ya know that is true the dreanight may be cheep but the basic units are mad expensive so that could be internal codex balance right their.

I don't know about turn 4 being all that fast, I tabled my nid opponent turn 3 last game, and on turn 2 he only had 1 troop model left (of course I was playing DE wyche heavy.... not much else in the game that actually likes CC genestealers lol).

Yeah, nids kind of suck now, but the old book wasn't any good in 5th either. At least the nid players have options to make competitive armies (even though most of them refuse to take them...).

I think nids and daemons were really struggling in the tournament scene even before this book. If G/Ks become popular at all, and I think they will, it will be the end to them in competative environments. They are just too hard of a counter.

ya know that is true the dreanight may be cheep but the basic units are mad expensive so that could be internal codex balance right their.

That's actually the definition of an internally imbalanced codex; half the stuff is great, half the stuff is crap. The great stuff is taken en masse for a truly face-rolling good time, the crap never makes it to the table.

You could, if you wanted to, build an absolutely terrible SW list with nothing but Blood Claws, Skyclaws, and badly equipped Lone Wolves or Wolf Scouts.

'Oh noes the Dark Eldar codex is coming out and it'll totally wreck face and change the internet meta-game as we know it!'

'Oh noes the Grey Knight codex is coming out and it'll totally wreck face and change the internet meta-game as we know it!'

'Oh noes the...'

You see what I'm getting at here people? Every army has inbuilt advantages and disadvantages. Everyone cried when DE were revealed to have PtP before they fully realised that wiping out a unit (any unit) is actually a lot more difficult that it sounds, not to mention their vehicles are made of paper.

Grey Knights are going to be balanced via their points cost. Yes, you can create a 700 point Paladin Terminator squad of dooooooom, but it's just as vulnerable as a Tactical Terminator squad to demolisher cannons (5++) and, again, costs 700 points!!!

Seriously, take a look at how few models a Grey Knight army is going to consist of when given all those masses of upgrades, you'll probably find yourself facing down 2-3 squads, if that.

Guys, the sky is not falling, and 40k is not going to implode just because Codex: Shiny Space Marines is coming out.

L. Wrex

Geno, making a heavy choice cheap to make up for expensive troops isnt really any balance.

And also, keep in mind that they may be expensive troops, but thats because of thier rules and upgrades, which actually make them worth it.

Removing eternal killed nids the worsed.
at the time of release, it was hyped up to be a game breaking army, turns out they were just balanced and basic now.






Daemons have only really struggled in tournaments because of deployment mainly.
That alone causes alot of problems, and when an army can make it even worse, it kills off all hopes at times.

Other than that, AV14 can be a pain since you need to drag it into combat to kill it since bolt isnt the best.

Therion wrote: Basically at the 2K pts limit the Tyranids are currently handicapped by about 300-500 points. SW can probably beat them more often than not with a 1500p army. I don't think many people often realise exactly how bad the balance is. Points costs aren't necessarily off by 3 or 5 points only. They can actually be off 50 points or more per single unit and it's sad.

when you play 1500 points, tyranids can do very well. You can field tervigons as troop choice and bring trygons so with 1500 points you can field about 5 MC's with 6 wounds each. when you start to play more then 1500 points the balance shifts because the enemy will bring more firepower..

Against Grey Knights, I think that tyranids need to take down those guys with clusterspines and spawned gaunts with flesborers and TS/AG. still...hard nut to crack.

Lycaeus Wrex:

Hush now, we are fortunate to witness such scintillating insight. If only we'd known this sooner, we could have given up sooner!

Meta Knight was not widely banned; only on a few occasions when people refused to adapt and maybe not play Ganondorf anymore. He is the best character, but he was never banned. just FYI. Sorry for off topic.

On topic: Stop whining. Tyranids are fine. All is well.

Sell your tyranids for a better army.

Problem solved.

So how is it that the nids are played well now i was looking towards massed gargoyles hive gaurd and biovores as the spine to the army. does that sound like a good direction? It seems like that would be a decent way to take on DE, blob squad gaurd, and other GEQ armies and amass so many units that MEQ should eventually fall.

I may not believe all the hype about how "overpowered" GKs are, simply because everyone says that about every new codex that comes out...

...yet I cannot help but believe that someone at GW has a terrible grudge against Tyranids. Everything that has been released since Tyranids seems intent on murdering them thrice over, including the FAQ. (In fact, the Tyranid FAQ is the only FAQ with which I would be okay selectively ignoring parts).

Yea saddly i would rather play 4th ed nid codex still in this world of 5th ed. I think it would far better.

I have to say Nids in 5ed is the worst codex I've ever read. I would never take them to a serious tourney.