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I won't hesitate to face any army. I look forward to playing against the new GK codex.

It seems if you are ill prepared to face them, your gunna get the gak beaten out of you, but otherwise they are just another race.

no more try-trygon:(

I think that there are a few things that are going to be more dangerous than people expect, and a few things that will be more so.


1) Fortitude - I think that this one will be big for the competitive armies out there. The classic standby advice is "once a vehicle is stunned, move on to the next one" This means that glancing GK vehicles will not help you all that much, (only 1/3 or the results do much). You will need more ways to reliably PEN vehicles rather than gust getting a few glances each turn. Psy defence will help mitigate this, BUT only if you have long range/board wide psy defence, as you want those Stunned results when the vehicles are far away rather then 24'-18" away.
Conclusion: Subtle Bonus for only 5pts a vehicle, Will hurt once the games start being played.

2) Purifiers are very good in combat against almost every type of assault unit, weather it is multi-wound, Horde, or Armored. Just like every other heavy assault unit, you just need to shoo at them until they are dead, and not let them fight where they are strongest.
Conclusion: Do not Fight them, just shoot them. Just another strong assault unit.

3) Vindicare: 3+4d6 against vehicles looks good on paper, BUT a lot of lists have vehicles with saves these days. He does not lessen or ignore cover saves, so with that 4+ save you will probably have, there is Less Than a 50% chance for him to do anything on a given turn. Can hurt if you are caught out of cover, but otherwise not so much.
Conclusion: A threat, but only 2 wounds for 145 pts, does nothing to mitigate cover saves.

4) Psy-Rifle-Man Dread: Basically it performs a little better than a regular Rifleman (S8 and Fortitude), BUT it costs more than it does as well. Started as a good unit, and it got a little better.
Conclusion: Going to be a mainstay of tournament lists probably, but is not a huge fan of melta or anything else that can pen it easily.

5) Henchman Spam: Essentaily taking a cheep HQ and Cheap troops so you can take a lot of Razorbacks or Chimeras. First off, I will bet that when the FAQ comes out, you will be limited to 6 henchmen. If you really want to MIN/MAX this is the way to go, but it means that your scoring units will drop fast once their tanks are gone. Opponents will be able to go for the tie fairly easily by taking out your 6 Transports, then taking out the 18 (or less if some dies in explosions) T3 5+ save guys left.
Conclusion: You will have a lot of kill points, and easy to kill scoring units. Go for the massacre and win, but do not expect to win any scoring matches.

My Deathwing aren't afraid, Storm Shields and Hammers? Whatcha gonna do? I'll relish the day when someone takes a Paladin unit into combat with one of my basic terminator units.


...Crunch.

Fafnir wrote:

Jackster wrote:Henchmen spam and Super Rifleman Dread makes me a bit anxious as an IG player.
Kinda glad that almost all GK units will wipe my non-blob squads in one turn though!

And a blob squad won't stand much of a chance against 2 Purifier Combat Squads. That's a 4+ to wound on every man in the unit. Twice. Every assault phase.

Say goodbye to that power blob.

Thats okay, I dont run power-blobs. (Mech player)
BTW, wouldnt those 2 Purifier squads combine cost like twice as much as the power blob?

I've never been afraid of any 40k army. I mean, they're all only a few inches tall at best... well, unless I got poked by one and got 'lead' poisoning.

I've fought every faction and in different configurations. Unless my opponent has just been that super-uber I find that any army is beatable with just about any other army...

The rubber meets the road at tournaments though, but I still think the above holds true even there where I've had lots of success with my 'vanilla' marines.

I consider all tactica, army list, and general advice given to grey knights at this time no real recognition tell the codex is officially released. People can browse and look at it all they want at there local stores. But in the end tell people read it 3 times over and start playing more then a few games then I will consider if my guardmen should be "afraid" of them.

Jackster wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Jackster wrote:Henchmen spam and Super Rifleman Dread makes me a bit anxious as an IG player.
Kinda glad that almost all GK units will wipe my non-blob squads in one turn though!

And a blob squad won't stand much of a chance against 2 Purifier Combat Squads. That's a 4+ to wound on every man in the unit. Twice. Every assault phase.

Say goodbye to that power blob.

Thats okay, I dont run power-blobs. (Mech player)
BTW, wouldnt those 2 Purifier squads combine cost like twice as much as the power blob?

No. A full purifier squad shouldn't cost much more than 350 points, less depending on how you gear them. Powerblobs are cheap, but if you have 3 squads and a command squad with 4 commissars and 8 power weapons, you're looking at 400 points minimum.

If you combat squad the purifier squad and combined assault the powerblob (we'll assume no shots were made on either side), you can use cleansing flame to wound every single member of the blob on a 4+ twice (which means no wound allocation shenanigans either, you'll probably lose a few power weapons too). It'll effectively reduce the 39 man unit to 19 men, and that's before any attacks are made. Depending on what close combat weapons the squad is armed with, there won't be much left of the blob left to fight back.

While not afraid of the grey knights and wanting to murder dreadknights with amassed poisonous splinterfire I find myself feeling the only one whom actually wants to build a grey knights army because I actually like its feel and not because it's the bandwagon or it looks like the new cheese on the block.

Eura wrote:While not afraid of the grey knights and wanting to murder dreadknights with amassed poisonous splinterfire I find myself feeling the only one whom actually wants to build a grey knights army because I actually like its feel and not because it's the bandwagon or it looks like the new cheese on the block.

grey knights were the reason i did 40k i played dow saw grey knights took a interest then bought some tyranids and was about to give up when i saw daemonhunters and got some GK in PA went to buy the codex and the day b4 it had been recalled for this refit :(

so im doing GK to make the army ill probaly use as my main from now on

I just get shinier trophies...
Simple

Fafnir wrote:

Jackster wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Jackster wrote:Henchmen spam and Super Rifleman Dread makes me a bit anxious as an IG player.
Kinda glad that almost all GK units will wipe my non-blob squads in one turn though!

And a blob squad won't stand much of a chance against 2 Purifier Combat Squads. That's a 4+ to wound on every man in the unit. Twice. Every assault phase.

Say goodbye to that power blob.

Thats okay, I dont run power-blobs. (Mech player)
BTW, wouldnt those 2 Purifier squads combine cost like twice as much as the power blob?

No. A full purifier squad shouldn't cost much more than 350 points, less depending on how you gear them. Powerblobs are cheap, but if you have 3 squads and a command squad with 4 commissars and 8 power weapons, you're looking at 400 points minimum.

If you combat squad the purifier squad and combined assault the powerblob (we'll assume no shots were made on either side), you can use cleansing flame to wound every single member of the blob on a 4+ twice (which means no wound allocation shenanigans either, you'll probably lose a few power weapons too). It'll effectively reduce the 39 man unit to 19 men, and that's before any attacks are made. Depending on what close combat weapons the squad is armed with, there won't be much left of the blob left to fight back.

Yea, I've seen that particular power at work yesterday. (Against Orcs) Quite nasty, but I think the doom of powerblob is the Vindicare who can snipe out Kommies and PWs.
But this isnt the first unit that can tear through powerblobs and we have solutions for those.
I think Air Cav would be a good list to take against GK, they have less guys for us to eliminate with alpha strike. Demo Charge can kill them just as surely as any other marines.

Jackster wrote:
Yea, I've seen that particular power at work yesterday. (Against Orcs) Quite nasty, but I think the doom of powerblob is the Vindicare who can snipe out Kommies and PWs.

The Vindicare's scary with his ability to alocate wounds, but he's only got 5-7 shots a game, assuming he doesn't get killed or assaulted. Chances are, especially against an Imperial Gaurd army, that the Vindicare has more important targets to snipe.

I think Air Cav would be a good list to take against GK, they have less guys for us to eliminate with alpha strike. Demo Charge can kill them just as surely as any other marines.

Definetly. GK are offensive anti-infantry monsters, but their lack of mobility and the fact that they're very expensive but die just like normal marines. Mechanized armies packing lots of firepower will tear through them fairly easily. Just watch out for Psyriflemen and be weary of psycannons.

I completely agree. There's a lot of panic and rage over this codex. At the end of the day people will come up with some awesome tactics to smash through them. GK have some cool toys, but nothing that good tactics and army lists won't take care of.

Eh, grey knights are just another type of marine army. Few guys, tons of perks. Yes you should take them seriously and play smart if you want to win. But no need to crap your pants over them just cause they've got new stuff.

Plus if your opponent is fielding the obliterangutan you can call him a heretic the entire game for associating with xenos.

Note on the vindicare... I think it sucks for its points. The one useful round is the one that wounds on 2+. The rest of the time it's 50/50 if the guy does anything. I used to use a vindicare regularly and every game he took down maybe 2 or 3 guys, unless I was trying to kill a commander or something, in which case he usually took down 0 guys. It was nice to be able to off a heavy weapon or sarge once in a while, and for the psychological effect on my opponent, but not worth the points in my opinion for a unit that only works half the game on average.

Justus wrote:Anybody else just not afraid of the Grey Knights at all? I've been to my FLGS, I've read the codex. The +2 invul saves everywhere, power weapons galore. None of it scares me that much. Oh no, OP abilities! Let's not forget that these are spells children, most armies have some form of pschic defense and then there is always the chance that they will fail. I know my Eldar buddy is confident. Wraithnaughtifex? Everything is so over hyped and OTT.

I play Chaos and Nids. As for Chaos, IDC who you are. One fish two fish blue fish red fish. Blue marine red marine wolfy marine silver marine. A STR 8 AP 3 large blast is a STR 8 AP 3 large blast is a STR 8 AP 3 large blast. I almost wish I played IG just to lol all over the new color of marine. How about the Possessed Vindicator twins that I always take? I'm even willing to give them an edge by using a Chaos Dreadnought. No Lash? Poor baby, I rarely use it anyway. I'm used to being "underpowered." Bring it on.

As for my Tyranids, enjoy drowning and killing my cheap, endless swarms. My Tyranid warriors will prove (as always) that having Boneswords and Lashwhips is better than any marine. Yes deepstrike please! I have some outflanking genestealers that are hungry? No? Then say hi to my Trygons and Tyrant.

I see all of the cute new abilities. I'm also sick of all the raging over GK, it's like Dark Eldar all over again. At the end it's still toughness 4 with a 3+ save. As for the termy troop choices? My Lesser Daemons and Gaunts don't care whether that save is 2+ armor or 2+ invul. Yes, servo skull. Yes, plasma siphon. Shut your mouth and adapt to it, like we do with every new release. I'm ready for the challenge. Are you?

Roawr!

I agree... my Eldar will roflstomp GKs...

Its my Space Wolves that Im new to and worry about.

"Afraid" is maybe a bit too strong but "cautious" definitely. Some armies do need to
re-think their unit choices when facing Grey Knights ( Orks, Tyranids ), some less so ( Imperial Guard ).

Since I am currently primarily an IG commander I do not have to make huge changes to established protocol:
plenty of shooting. The GK massacred our brave guys and gals if they got into melee during the old Codex too
so nothing new on that front.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:Eh, grey knights are just another type of marine army. Few guys, tons of perks. Yes you should take them seriously and play smart if you want to win. But no need to crap your pants over them just cause they've got new stuff.

Plus if your opponent is fielding the obliterangutan you can call him a heretic the entire game for associating with xenos.

Note on the vindicare... I think it sucks for its points. The one useful round is the one that wounds on 2+. The rest of the time it's 50/50 if the guy does anything. I used to use a vindicare regularly and every game he took down maybe 2 or 3 guys, unless I was trying to kill a commander or something, in which case he usually took down 0 guys. It was nice to be able to off a heavy weapon or sarge once in a while, and for the psychological effect on my opponent, but not worth the points in my opinion for a unit that only works half the game on average.

Probably true but it's a psychological threat. If you keep it in cover it's a 2 wounds, 3+ cover, 4 or 5 ++ (IIRC) with FNP on 6. It'll take some firepower to kill and a well place shot can quite ruin your day, especially for some armies. So if it draws fire off from the true killers, like vehicles holding purifier squads or psyflemen dreads, then it's still a good bargain imho.
And the 2+ to wound isn't that good unless your target is a single wound model. On average 2 wounds at 50% chance are better than 1 at 83.3% (especially since the weapon may rend as well)

After hours reading the codex and a few games using the store force + proxies:

GKs weakness is its troops. They need to take 2 expensive troop units (although some argue undercosted), kill these and the game is yours.

Further, treat the Dreadknight as any larger target (think DP).

Take out transports, and you have more time to shoot them to pieces, especially the proposed Jokaero in Chimeras.

RP spam will shut down most of this army and finish it off.

AvatarForm wrote:GKs weakness is its troops. They need to take 2 expensive troop units (although some argue undercosted), kill these and the game is yours.

Grand Strategy/Crowe/Coteaz. Sure, in the case of GS you have to take "normal troops", but still, scoring dreadnoughts anyone?

The more I read about them, the less I fear them.

Brother SRM wrote:I could care less.

So you must care somewhat about these Grey Knights.

I'm not that afraid of them, but then again I'm not as bothered about winning as some people on here. I just like playing warhammer.

Fafnir wrote:

Jackster wrote:
Yea, I've seen that particular power at work yesterday. (Against Orcs) Quite nasty, but I think the doom of powerblob is the Vindicare who can snipe out Kommies and PWs.

The Vindicare's scary with his ability to alocate wounds, but he's only got 5-7 shots a game, assuming he doesn't get killed or assaulted. Chances are, especially against an Imperial Gaurd army, that the Vindicare has more important targets to snipe.

I think Air Cav would be a good list to take against GK, they have less guys for us to eliminate with alpha strike. Demo Charge can kill them just as surely as any other marines.

Definetly. GK are offensive anti-infantry monsters, but their lack of mobility and the fact that they're very expensive but die just like normal marines. Mechanized armies packing lots of firepower will tear through them fairly easily. Just watch out for Psyriflemen and be weary of psycannons.

Well, against pure foot guard vindi would go for officers, or a kommie if theres only one in the blob. (I suppose everyone will have atleast two from now on!)
Psyrifles are definitely the highest priority target for a mech army, thankfully they cost like 200 pts each if I am not mistaken and IG has a good amount of stuff to kill it.

To the OP, I salute your bravado. However, 'Nids are a poor choice indeed of reasons _not_ to fear the new GK codex.

Psyrifles are 135 points. Definitely nowhere near 200.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Psyrifles are 135 points. Definitely nowhere near 200.

Well, my bad, probably confused it with Stormraven, seem to be the two things people like to fret about.

And only really SR with onboard libbies, as 3+ cover saves are a pain.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:GKs weakness is its troops. They need to take 2 expensive troop units (although some argue undercosted), kill these and the game is yours.

Grand Strategy/Crowe/Coteaz. Sure, in the case of GS you have to take "normal troops", but still, scoring dreadnoughts anyone?

What is your point?

Your dread is a single target, which will melt into a pool of slag... I would find killing PAGK more difficult.

AvatarForm wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:GKs weakness is its troops. They need to take 2 expensive troop units (although some argue undercosted), kill these and the game is yours.

Grand Strategy/Crowe/Coteaz. Sure, in the case of GS you have to take "normal troops", but still, scoring dreadnoughts anyone?

What is your point?

Your dread is a single target, which will melt into a pool of slag... I would find killing PAGK more difficult.

My point is that you can't expect to be fighting 2 troop choices. Henchmen are cheap as hell, a purifier army will be dangerous and everything bar transports can be made scoring thanks to GS.