Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

the fluff got an overhaul, but i like it. it's more interesting

Fair enough, I missed that. Calm down folks.

personally i really like him
<---------------hence this

he has the best fluff imo and hes a great unit in CC he can tarpit with parry do hordes with Cleansing flame and kill IC with his specials and death psychic power

the only problem is getting him there hes like a really expensive none shooty lone wolf but that's why i like him hes the unit your opponent laughs at for slogging across the board and running every shooting phase but cries when he takes down their horde or eats their expensive IC


hell im even so far to shout the old I am Spartacus line on this guy because hes now my favorite character in 40K hes a classic underdog

I am castellan crowe!

There he is, lads He admits it

Crucify him.

Then beat him to a pulp for having such ridiculous fluff and ruining the GK


I can't believe that you actually like that dross they pretend is fluff...

Ascalam wrote:There he is, lads He admits it

Crucify him.

Then beat him to a pulp for having such ridiculous fluff and ruining the GK


I can't believe that you actually like that dross they pretend is fluff...

AHHH! *runs away and hides*

now fro something completely different: i like it tbh i warrior completely incorruptible and devotes his entire life to guarding a sword which means he gets attacked by power crazed enemies and never tempted to use its powers for his own good ? sounds pretty Bad-a** to me .
plus on the battlefield no one can be near him because they the most pure of the space marines could be turned by it xD

and i mean hes so good a swordsman he doesn't even use the sword to its full potential i reckon he could get rending off a spoon xD

Crow's really bad. Really, really, really bad.

Most of his rules kind of just suck, and having 2 wounds doesn't help him much either. Especially since he can't join another unit.

But what really kills him is that whole "enemy units charging him get furious charge and rerolls to hit."

Against just Crowe, that's not that bad, since, let's face it, you didn't really buy the guy to be useful. The problem comes when your opponent starts multi-assaulting.

So unless you isolate Crowe completely from the rest of your army, you could end up with a smart opponent charging Crowe and getting into combat with something actually useful. And they'll have Furious Charge and rerolls to hit just to make that unit's life absolute hell.

He's best just sitting at the back of the table and hoping that he doesn't get blown up by a lascannon in a killpoint game. Use him to unlock Purifiers and then just keep him out of the game, his abilities make him way too much of a liability.

Fafnir wrote:But what really kills him is that whole "enemy units charging him get furious charge and rerolls to hit.".

unless its relictors, then crow dies instantly from hypocrite wounds

Fafnir wrote:Crow's really bad. Really, really, really bad.

Most of his rules kind of just suck, and having 2 wounds doesn't help him much either. Especially since he can't join another unit.

But what really kills him is that whole "enemy units charging him get furious charge and rerolls to hit."

Against just Crowe, that's not that bad, since, let's face it, you didn't really buy the guy to be useful. The problem comes when your opponent starts multi-assaulting.

So unless you isolate Crowe completely from the rest of your army, you could end up with a smart opponent charging Crowe and getting into combat with something actually useful. And they'll have Furious Charge and rerolls to hit just to make that unit's life absolute hell.

He's best just sitting at the back of the table and hoping that he doesn't get blown up by a lascannon in a killpoint game. Use him to unlock Purifiers and then just keep him out of the game, his abilities make him way too much of a liability.

can you clarify this for me im a little confused only the unit that charges crowe gets FC and re-rolls and only if they get charge and can't keep them so its only bad if they target him if they charge into a unit in the same combat they don't get any bonuses

Alphacerberus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Crow's really bad. Really, really, really bad.

Most of his rules kind of just suck, and having 2 wounds doesn't help him much either. Especially since he can't join another unit.

But what really kills him is that whole "enemy units charging him get furious charge and rerolls to hit."

Against just Crowe, that's not that bad, since, let's face it, you didn't really buy the guy to be useful. The problem comes when your opponent starts multi-assaulting.

So unless you isolate Crowe completely from the rest of your army, you could end up with a smart opponent charging Crowe and getting into combat with something actually useful. And they'll have Furious Charge and rerolls to hit just to make that unit's life absolute hell.

He's best just sitting at the back of the table and hoping that he doesn't get blown up by a lascannon in a killpoint game. Use him to unlock Purifiers and then just keep him out of the game, his abilities make him way too much of a liability.

can you clarify this for me im a little confused only the unit that charges crowe gets FC and re-rolls and only if they get charge and can't keep them so its only bad if they target him if they charge into a unit in the same combat they don't get any bonuses

No by assaulting Crowe and getting even one guy into CC, the rules been satisfied so the effect gose off. The getting to FC reroll the extra unit in multi assault is just a bonus, as you still assaulted Crowe.

Edit: You must declare your assaulting Crowe, you can't declare an assault on a Strike Squad and get into multi assault with Crowe and clame the bonuses.

Whoa!

Everyone needs to settle down a bit in here.

Remember the rules of the site, and if you think someone has transgressed, please use the Moderator Alert button - no vigilante justice please.

Public warning issued - carry on!

That wasnt vigilante justice, it was a prophecy, a warning to the denizens of the only decent 40k forum left.

Alphacerberus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Crow's really bad. Really, really, really bad.

Most of his rules kind of just suck, and having 2 wounds doesn't help him much either. Especially since he can't join another unit.

But what really kills him is that whole "enemy units charging him get furious charge and rerolls to hit."

Against just Crowe, that's not that bad, since, let's face it, you didn't really buy the guy to be useful. The problem comes when your opponent starts multi-assaulting.

So unless you isolate Crowe completely from the rest of your army, you could end up with a smart opponent charging Crowe and getting into combat with something actually useful. And they'll have Furious Charge and rerolls to hit just to make that unit's life absolute hell.

He's best just sitting at the back of the table and hoping that he doesn't get blown up by a lascannon in a killpoint game. Use him to unlock Purifiers and then just keep him out of the game, his abilities make him way too much of a liability.

can you clarify this for me im a little confused only the unit that charges crowe gets FC and re-rolls and only if they get charge and can't keep them so its only bad if they target him if they charge into a unit in the same combat they don't get any bonuses

Basically, you declare a charge on Crowe. You move one man into base contact with him, and then spread out the rest of your unit to get into combat with another unit (so long as you remain in unit coherency, you're golden). So long as you've declared your charge against Crowe, and have one model in base contact with him, the entire unit gets furious charge and may reroll to hit. You can have entire portions of your army devestated by this tactic (this obviously depends on what army and units you're playing), and Crowe only makes it easier.

Well, i certaintly will be trying to prevent assaults on Crowe as much as possable, especially multi-assaults.


then i can just use Blade shield to stay alive and let Cleansing Flame do the work.

or i assault, you pile in and i get a meteric ton of attacks that basically kill on 4+ unless you have Invulns

Grey Templar wrote:
or i assault, you pile in and i get a meteric ton of attacks that basically kill on 4+ unless you have Invulns

Which is cool, until you remember that he's mounted on a small base. Which means he'll only ever get 6 attacks at most. Which is cool, until you realize that that generally means he'll only make about 2 wounds, which is kind of pathetic, especially when, against the enemies that have the numbers to surround him in such a way, they're likely to not really care about 2 wounds.

All for 150 points and a chance to be beaten to a bloody pulp when the chance for the enemy to attack comes around.

In comparison, a Purifier with a pair of falchions on the charge will get 5 attacks, inflicting 1.25 wounds for 29 points.

Use him to unlock Purifiers as troops, and then keep him isolated in the back for the rest of the game.

2 wounds, plus Cleansing flame.


depending on the models attacking him, that could be alot.


and cleansing flame has the ability to snipe sergeants and special weapons as the hits are allocated on a model by model basis.

And even if he did get in combat with something like a Boyz squad, which is what he's supposedly supposed to to well against, after cleansing flame has gone off and he's made his attacks, that'll leave 15 boyz and a Nob left.

Those 15 boyz will make their attacks, inflicting 1.25 wounds on average (remember, if Crowe uses his sword storm stance, he can't reroll his armour saves), and then the Nob inflicts 0.625 wounds (that will instantly kill him if one is unsaved).

So if Crowe were to get in combat with a large horde, which is supposedly his bread and butter, he'll kill around 84 points worth before he bites it. And his value only gets worse as enemy units get lower in number and higher in quality.

Grey Templar wrote:
or i assault, you pile in and i get a meteric ton of attacks that basically kill on 4+ unless you have Invulns

Even then Blade Sheild and Cleaning Flame is the better option. Only vs. IC and MC is it worth going on the offence with Crowe, even thats risky as you only get 4 attacks max so there a good chance the IC/MC will survive and kill him.

Fafnir wrote:And even if he did get in combat with something like a Boyz squad, which is what he's supposedly supposed to to well against, after cleansing flame has gone off and he's made his attacks, that'll leave 15 boyz and a Nob left.

Those 15 boyz will make their attacks, inflicting 1.25 wounds on average (remember, if Crowe uses his sword storm stance, he can't reroll his armour saves), and then the Nob inflicts 0.625 wounds (that will instantly kill him if one is unsaved).

So if Crowe were to get in combat with a large horde, which is supposedly his bread and butter, he'll kill around 84 points worth before he bites it. And his value only gets worse as enemy units get lower in number and higher in quality.

with blade shield, he's rerolling his 2+ armor and 4+ invuln.


boys won't kill him, and a PK nob basically has a worse then 25% chance each turn(averaging 1 hit, 1 wound, and Crowe has to double fail a 4++)

and that nob better hope he doesn't take any Cleansing flame wounds over the course of the combat.

Grey Templar wrote:
and a PK nob basically has a worse then 25% chance each turn(averaging 1 hit, 1 wound, and Crowe has to double fail a 4++)

and that nob better hope he doesn't take any Cleansing flame wounds over the course of the combat.

Actually, the Nob has a 31% chance of inflicting a wound if Crowe uses Blade Shield. And Cleansing flame only ever inflicts one wound per use. That's wounding on a 4+ with a 6+ save on a model with 2 wounds. Essentially, 41% of a wound each turn, which must be inflicted twice. So on average, it'll take about 5 turns of combat to get the job done, while a Nob is likely to get the job done in 3 (although it's possible to get it done in one turn, where as Crowe needs at least two no matter what).

Things still don't look too good for Crowe.

And note, this is if Crowe gets the charge. Since he'll likely be on foot, it could really go either way. What's more, the Boyz have access to the Waaagh! to help close the distance and ensure a charge if they have to. And if the boyz get the charge, the Nob is almost gauranteed to kill him, which means that the boyz can multi-assault into something else, with the lovely added bonus of rerolling to hit.

The point is though that by charging Crowe in (from a stormraven say) he's going to 'make back' about half his points or more depending on how long he survives. With a dreadnought backing him up and another stormraven having unleashed 10 purifiers, librarian and another dreadnought elsewhere, and with the librarian able to summon another 10 purifiers (whose raven Crowe used), you can get stuck right into a horde with lots of cleanses and some meltas to take out any vehicles too). If the purifiers have flachions, they're going to mince big ork m,mobs - and a demon hammer or two will settle the hash of any wandering nob...

But why even worry about all that just to fit Crowe in when a single pair of combat squaded purifiers will do the job just as well for much less, all while leaving unscathed?

Fafnir wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
and a PK nob basically has a worse then 25% chance each turn(averaging 1 hit, 1 wound, and Crowe has to double fail a 4++)

and that nob better hope he doesn't take any Cleansing flame wounds over the course of the combat.

Actually, the Nob has a 31% chance of inflicting a wound if Crowe uses Blade Shield. And Cleansing flame only ever inflicts one wound per use. That's wounding on a 4+ with a 6+ save on a model with 2 wounds. Essentially, 41% of a wound each turn, which must be inflicted twice. So on average, it'll take about 5 turns of combat to get the job done, while a Nob is likely to get the job done in 3 (although it's possible to get it done in one turn, where as Crowe needs at least two no matter what).

Things still don't look too good for Crowe.

And note, this is if Crowe gets the charge. Since he'll likely be on foot, it could really go either way. What's more, the Boyz have access to the Waaagh! to help close the distance and ensure a charge if they have to. And if the boyz get the charge, the Nob is almost gauranteed to kill him, which means that the boyz can multi-assault into something else, with the lovely added bonus of rerolling to hit.

I thought cleansing flame counts towards combat resolution, which would cause 15 wounds on 30 boys followed by a dozen or so more wounds from fearless if crowe doesn't get pasted by the nobs pklaw. Crowe single handedly killing 22 orks in 1 round of combat is a moot compared to the big picture: green tide is screwed because the gk player is probably fielding about 30 purifiers as troops.

That being said crowe still sucks, he is the tripe gk players must swallow to have purifiers as troops.

Fafnir wrote:But why even worry about all that just to fit Crowe in when a single pair of combat squaded purifiers will do the job just as well for much less, all while leaving unscathed?

Well because if one does not take Crowe, then Purifiers are elites, not troops - and that means probably fielding only 2-4 scoring units.

If the idea is to do a 'purification charge' via land raiders or (better, I think) stormravens and call in reinforcements via a Librarian's summons, then of a 2000 point list one has as 'core idea' units:

Librarian, 10 purifiers (combat squadded), 2 stormravens, 2 dreadnoughts, coming in at around 1200 points, depending on Librarian build and precise weapons/wargear chosen. An absolute minimum of 1030 points (no upgrades whatsoever). None of which score. You could add 4 scoring terminator squads at 200 each and have a miserable 150 to spend on wargear, or a more realistic +15% on upgrades to the units, allowing Falchions etc for more hitting power, which means 3 scoring terminator units (2 if Falchions and psycannons are maxed or almost maxed on all infantry).

But take Crowe at 150 points and you can add to that another 10 man purifier unit at around 320 pts instead of your terminators and have enough points left for a 5 man purifier or an assassin or upgrade your dreadnoughts to venerables... so 4 or 5 scoring units assuming you combat squad, and a lot more hitting power (though less survivability) in your follow-up squads. Crowe has his place.

Crowe actually costs less that that boy mob he tied up for a couple of turns(while doing some serious damage) so he actually was very useful.



one way to protect him would be to bubble wrap him.


have him in the exact middle of a squad of purifiers. he isn't joined to them, but he can't be directly charged and he could potentially join the combat at a later time.

Grey Templar wrote:Crowe actually costs less that that boy mob he tied up for a couple of turns(while doing some serious damage) so he actually was very useful.



one way to protect him would be to bubble wrap him.


have him in the exact middle of a squad of purifiers. he isn't joined to them, but he can't be directly charged and he could potentially join the combat at a later time.

The downside to that is if the squad takes shooting casualties crowe and the squad risk being multi charged, and then the enemy gains FC + Rerolls to hit against crowe and the squad that is bubble wrapping him, which is bad news unless ork boys charging crowe and purifiers.

If it's 30 ork boys Crowe and purifiers then Crowe can light 15/30 on them on fire killing 12.5, then the purifiers can light 9/18 of the survivors on fire killing another 7.5 resulting in a total of 20 orks being killed before I10. The 10 remaining orks can then start the combat out at -20 combat resolution and the grey knights get to swing first.

schadenfreude wrote:If it's 30 ork boys Crowe and purifiers then Crowe can light 15/30 on them on fire killing 12.5, then the purifiers can light 9/18 of the survivors on fire killing another 7.5 resulting in a total of 20 orks being killed before I10. The 10 remaining orks can then start the combat out at -20 combat resolution and the grey knights get to swing first.

What, in the wording of Cleansing Flame, makes you think the psy powers would be anything but simultaneous?

Crowe lights 15/30 Boyz on fire for 12.5 dead. The Purifiers light 15/30 on fire for 12.5 dead. 25 Boyz die "before any blows are struck" and the remaining 5 are left to eat the attacks of the squad.

Multicharging purifiers with a hordey unit is absolute suicide unless you can shut down their psypowers.

sourclams wrote:Multicharging purifiers with a hordey unit is absolute suicide unless you can shut down their psypowers.

Which you cannot do, unless you're Nids with a Shadow in the Warp unit 12" away.

Crowe+Purifiers both charging a unit is just plain nasty. Even against a 10-man MEQ squad (say, Berzerkers), you're putting down 3 before any blows are struck, and then attacking first if you brought Halberds.

Everyone I've seen so far has been interpreting Cleansing Flame as going model by model. If that is true then it doesn't matter whether you do it simultaneously or consecutively. It only matters if you do conventional wound allocation.

He is mainly hated because he is new and doesn't exactly fit everyone else's vision of the Grey Knights, kinda like sports fans who hate their respective team's coach because he obviously doesn't know how to do his job.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:He is mainly hated because he is new and doesn't exactly fit everyone else's vision of the Grey Knights, kinda like sports fans who hate their respective team's coach because he obviously doesn't know how to do his job.

He is hated because he doesn't fit any vision of Grey Knights other than "they are morons".

He also has terrible rules.