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I like the TH/SS over the LC, but it's good to combine the two.

I would say 3 TH/SS and two LC's...good against armor and infantry

LCs are inferior to TH/SS in almost every way except horde control (use other parts of your list for this).

Just get 5x TH/SS, get a Land Raider redeemer/crusader, and point them toward the scariest target, or group of targets on the board. Its that simple.

snake wrote:Real CC monsters will have a better initiative and most likely armor ignoring leaving you to rely on 5++ (no thanks).

This is actually a reason to take LCs. The only complaint against them is that they can't take on the absolutely most powerful CC uber monsters of death.

Everything that's NOT an ultra-powerful super-dedicated monster of death, the lightning claws actually do rather well against.

Whether it's worth giving up the storm shield for this is somewhat dubious, but LCs aren't as "vastly inferior" as are being derided here.

Ailaros wrote:

snake wrote:Real CC monsters will have a better initiative and most likely armor ignoring leaving you to rely on 5++ (no thanks).

This is actually a reason to take LCs. The only complaint against them is that they can't take on the absolutely most powerful CC uber monsters of death.

Everything that's NOT an ultra-powerful super-dedicated monster of death, the lightning claws actually do rather well against.

Whether it's worth giving up the storm shield for this is somewhat dubious, but LCs aren't as "vastly inferior" as are being derided here.

Ailaros wrote:As others have said, THSS is WAY the better buy. Throwing in some LCs is a good idea, but more for reasons like wound wrapping. Against things which are good against terminators, termies with storm shields count as two terminators...

Really, the only time to take lightning claws for their own sake is if you don't have the option of taking storm shields (5 MoK termie champions with LCs = HOUSE OF PAIN!)

I'm a little confused by your position here, Ailaros. If LCs aren't vastly inferior, then why are TH/SS way the better buy and LCs best used for things wound wrapping? I think we agree that LCs can do well against non ultra-powerful super-dedicated monsters of death, but that TH/SS are ultimately the best way to go? Or am I misunderstanding what you've said?

What I'm saying is that lightning claws are good, but storm shields are better. That storm shields are good does not make LCs bad.

The ironically unfortunate thing is that a single lightning claw and a storm shield make such a crappy combination...